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        <title>Learning Copywriting Playlist</title>
        <link>https://www.listennotes.com/playlists/learning-copywriting-playlist-GiXEfjBLWqn/episodes/</link>
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            A curated podcast playlist by Anfernee Chansamooth.
            
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            <category>Podcasting</category>
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            <title>TCC Podcast #152: How to Get Yourself on Podcasts with Mai-kee Tsang</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/9c62f747c4bb471d8ad87011e4b76833</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-rob-marsh-RKsN5kV_e-Q/">The Copywriter Club Podcast</a> (LS 49 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/9c62f747c4bb471d8ad87011e4b76833/">TCC Podcast #152: How to Get Yourself on Podcasts with Mai-kee Tsang</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-09-10<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/9c62f747c4bb471d8ad87011e4b76833/&notes=TCC Podcast #152: How to Get Yourself on Podcasts with Mai-kee Tsang">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-kira-hug-and-Ebh6cYFTX5g-RKsN5kV_e-Q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Continuing what’s been a bit of a theme on the show lately, we invited copywriter Mai-kee Tsang to talk about how to pitch podcasts for the 152nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Mai-kee recently set a goal to pitch 101 podcasts in 30 days, and she joined Kira and Rob to talk about how she did it, what she learned, and the impact the project had on her business. During our discussion, we asked her:
•  how Mai-kee finally listened to her heart and became a copywriter
•  how she applies ideas from psychology and coaching to her copy
•  overcoming fears and how she overcame her fear of acceptance
•  developing a habit of trying things regardless of the expected result
•  the importance of sales—and why copywriters can’t afford not to sell
•  what she did to find her first clients
•  how she announced her copywriting business to the world
•  why hiding until you’re ready is the wrong approach to launching
•  why she took on a “101 podcast pitches” project
•  the biggest lessons she learned while pitching podcasts
•  the terrible first pitch she sent and what she learned
•  the elements of a successful pitch and how Mai-kee personalized each pitch
•  how she finds elements to personalize her pitches
•  the group program she launching to help others get on more podcasts
•  overcoming the idea that you don’t have something to share
•  the impact podcasts have had on Mai-kee’s own business

If you’ve ever listened to a podcast and though you could do better than the person you heard on the show, this is an episode you won’t want to miss. Combine it with our interview two weeks ago with Brigitte Lyons for best results. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or download the episode to your favorite podcast app and listen wherever you are.



 
The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:
The Copywriter Think Tank
The Podcast Pitching Masterclass
Mai-kee’s Website
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
The Copywriter Underground
Intro: Content (for now)
Outro: Gravity

 
Full Transcript:
Transcript to come...<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Rob Marsh, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-rob-marsh-RKsN5kV_e-Q/">The Copywriter Club Podcast</a> (LS 49 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/9c62f747c4bb471d8ad87011e4b76833/">TCC Podcast #152: How to Get Yourself on Podcasts with Mai-kee Tsang</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-09-10<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/9c62f747c4bb471d8ad87011e4b76833/&notes=TCC Podcast #152: How to Get Yourself on Podcasts with Mai-kee Tsang">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-kira-hug-and-Ebh6cYFTX5g-RKsN5kV_e-Q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Continuing what’s been a bit of a theme on the show lately, we invited copywriter Mai-kee Tsang to talk about how to pitch podcasts for the 152nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Mai-kee recently set a goal to pitch 101 podcasts in 30 days, and she joined Kira and Rob to talk about how she did it, what she learned, and the impact the project had on her business. During our discussion, we asked her:
•  how Mai-kee finally listened to her heart and became a copywriter
•  how she applies ideas from psychology and coaching to her copy
•  overcoming fears and how she overcame her fear of acceptance
•  developing a habit of trying things regardless of the expected result
•  the importance of sales—and why copywriters can’t afford not to sell
•  what she did to find her first clients
•  how she announced her copywriting business to the world
•  why hiding until you’re ready is the wrong approach to launching
•  why she took on a “101 podcast pitches” project
•  the biggest lessons she learned while pitching podcasts
•  the terrible first pitch she sent and what she learned
•  the elements of a successful pitch and how Mai-kee personalized each pitch
•  how she finds elements to personalize her pitches
•  the group program she launching to help others get on more podcasts
•  overcoming the idea that you don’t have something to share
•  the impact podcasts have had on Mai-kee’s own business

If you’ve ever listened to a podcast and though you could do better than the person you heard on the show, this is an episode you won’t want to miss. Combine it with our interview two weeks ago with Brigitte Lyons for best results. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Or download the episode to your favorite podcast app and listen wherever you are.



 
The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:
The Copywriter Think Tank
The Podcast Pitching Masterclass
Mai-kee’s Website
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
The Copywriter Underground
Intro: Content (for now)
Outro: Gravity

 
Full Transcript:
Transcript to come...<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Rob Marsh, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The Copywriter Club Podcast
Episode: TCC Podcast #152: How to Get Yourself on Podcasts with Mai-kee Tsang
Pub date: 2019-09-10

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/9c62f747c4bb471d8ad87011e4b76833/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Rob Marsh, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Tue, 11 Feb 2020 12:09:43 -0800</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/9c62f747c4bb471d8ad87011e4b76833/</guid>
            
            <author>Rob Marsh</author>



            
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            <itunes:subtitle>The Copywriter Club Podcast</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:55:51</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Rob Marsh</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-kira-hug-and-SQR_PVOpbiX-RKsN5kV_e-Q.1400x1400.jpg" />
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        <item>
            <title>Marketing Without a Budget: Grow Your Revenue with 0 Credibility or Advertising</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/923fc3baad934fb39a37da8216e46d6f</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/everyone-hates-marketers-no-bs-marketing-bzfnIVdcsgY/">Everyone Hates Marketers | No-BS Marketing & Brand Strategy Podcast</a> (LS 48 &middot; TOP 1% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/923fc3baad934fb39a37da8216e46d6f/">Marketing Without a Budget: Grow Your Revenue with 0 Credibility or Advertising</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-10-30<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/923fc3baad934fb39a37da8216e46d6f/&notes=Marketing Without a Budget: Grow Your Revenue with 0 Credibility or Advertising">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/everyone-hates-marketers-no-bs-marketing-BxKrjOkAtCn-bzfnIVdcsgY.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p></p><p><strong>I’m so f*cking happy to announce that ​my book, </strong><strong><em>Stand The F*ck Out</em></strong><strong>, is officially available for PURCHASE​!</strong> To buy the book—and more!—DIRECTLY from us and support our small business, go to: <a href="https://book.stfo.io/">book.stfo.io</a></p><p>Free Shipping Worldwide • Ripped Apart by 70+ Marketers • Money-Back Guarantee • Secure Online Payment</p><p>***</p><p>If you've ever wondered how to grow your business when nobody has an idea who you are, this episode is for you.</p><p>Here's the thing: I know what it's like to start a business and have to market yourself on a small budget.</p><p>What steps do you take when you don't have the money to spend on advertising and nobody cares about you yet? Ryan Kulp explains his strategy and more inside today's episode.</p><p><strong>Topics covered:</strong></p><ul><li>Why Ryan really writes all of his emails in lowercase</li><li>The truth about customer profiles (and why your ideal client doesn’t exist)</li><li>How to develop a gut feeling about your potential customers</li><li>Why writing daily can help you discover your biggest strengths</li><li>What happens when you look at what your competitors aren’t doing</li><li>Why your mindset matters when it comes to getting more done</li><li>How to become a better marketer by creating</li></ul><p><strong>Resources mentioned:</strong></p><ul><li><a href="https://everyonehatesmarketers.com/validate-business-idea-3-steps/">How to Validate Your Business Idea</a> in 3 Steps (The Right Way)</li><li><a href="https://everyonehatesmarketers.com/build-growth-marketing-team/">How to Build a Growth Marketing Team</a> (The Non-Sleazy Way)</li><li><a href="https://fomo.com/">Fomo</a>: Social Proof Marketing Platform</li><li><a href="https://twitter.com/ryanckulp">@RyanCKulp on Twitter</a></li><li><a href="https://twitter.com/usefomo/">@usefomo on Twitter</a></li><li><a href="https://www.ryanckulp.com/">RyanCKulp.com</a>: Ryan’s website and blog</li><li><a href="https://amzn.to/2RchJDx">All Marketers are Liars</a> by Seth Godin</li><li><a href="https://amzn.to/2PPR5A1">Purple Cow: Transform Your Business by Being Remarkable</a> by Seth Godin</li><li><a href="https://amzn.to/2ScnBxW">Linchpin: Are You Indispensable?</a> By Seth Godin</li><li><a href="https://www.everyonehatesmarketers.com/articles/bikeshedding-marketing">Bikeshedding in Marketing: 3 Keys to Being an Effective Marketer</a></li></ul><p><br /></p><p>***</p><p>→ <strong>Buy my book:</strong> <a href="https://book.stfo.io/">book.stfo.io</a><br />→ <strong>Join 14,000+ weirdos who learn to stand the f*ck out with my daily (Mon-Fri) emails</strong>:<strong> </strong><a href="https://www.everyonehatesmarketers.com/">everyonehatesmarketers.com</a><br />→ <strong>See my pretty face on LinkedIn</strong>: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/</a><br />→ <strong>Leave a review on Apple Podcasts:</strong> <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/everyone-hates-marketers/id1221256195?itscg=30200S&amp;itsct=podcast_box">https://apple.co/3p4wL4r</a><br />→ <strong>Leave a review on Spotify:</strong> <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/7iEF1qovZZiaP1iRtxGARo">https://open.spotify.com/show/7iEF1qovZZiaP1iRtxGARo</a></p><p><br />Finally...</p><p>If you're curious about putting your brand in front of my 14,000+ daily newsletter subscribers and/or podcast listeners, email me: louis@stfo.io</p><p>🤘</p><br /><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Louis Grenier | Marketing & Branding, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/everyone-hates-marketers-no-bs-marketing-bzfnIVdcsgY/">Everyone Hates Marketers | No-BS Marketing & Brand Strategy Podcast</a> (LS 48 &middot; TOP 1% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/923fc3baad934fb39a37da8216e46d6f/">Marketing Without a Budget: Grow Your Revenue with 0 Credibility or Advertising</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-10-30<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/923fc3baad934fb39a37da8216e46d6f/&notes=Marketing Without a Budget: Grow Your Revenue with 0 Credibility or Advertising">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/everyone-hates-marketers-no-bs-marketing-BxKrjOkAtCn-bzfnIVdcsgY.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p></p><p><strong>I’m so f*cking happy to announce that ​my book, </strong><strong><em>Stand The F*ck Out</em></strong><strong>, is officially available for PURCHASE​!</strong> To buy the book—and more!—DIRECTLY from us and support our small business, go to: <a href="https://book.stfo.io/">book.stfo.io</a></p><p>Free Shipping Worldwide • Ripped Apart by 70+ Marketers • Money-Back Guarantee • Secure Online Payment</p><p>***</p><p>If you've ever wondered how to grow your business when nobody has an idea who you are, this episode is for you.</p><p>Here's the thing: I know what it's like to start a business and have to market yourself on a small budget.</p><p>What steps do you take when you don't have the money to spend on advertising and nobody cares about you yet? Ryan Kulp explains his strategy and more inside today's episode.</p><p><strong>Topics covered:</strong></p><ul><li>Why Ryan really writes all of his emails in lowercase</li><li>The truth about customer profiles (and why your ideal client doesn’t exist)</li><li>How to develop a gut feeling about your potential customers</li><li>Why writing daily can help you discover your biggest strengths</li><li>What happens when you look at what your competitors aren’t doing</li><li>Why your mindset matters when it comes to getting more done</li><li>How to become a better marketer by creating</li></ul><p><strong>Resources mentioned:</strong></p><ul><li><a href="https://everyonehatesmarketers.com/validate-business-idea-3-steps/">How to Validate Your Business Idea</a> in 3 Steps (The Right Way)</li><li><a href="https://everyonehatesmarketers.com/build-growth-marketing-team/">How to Build a Growth Marketing Team</a> (The Non-Sleazy Way)</li><li><a href="https://fomo.com/">Fomo</a>: Social Proof Marketing Platform</li><li><a href="https://twitter.com/ryanckulp">@RyanCKulp on Twitter</a></li><li><a href="https://twitter.com/usefomo/">@usefomo on Twitter</a></li><li><a href="https://www.ryanckulp.com/">RyanCKulp.com</a>: Ryan’s website and blog</li><li><a href="https://amzn.to/2RchJDx">All Marketers are Liars</a> by Seth Godin</li><li><a href="https://amzn.to/2PPR5A1">Purple Cow: Transform Your Business by Being Remarkable</a> by Seth Godin</li><li><a href="https://amzn.to/2ScnBxW">Linchpin: Are You Indispensable?</a> By Seth Godin</li><li><a href="https://www.everyonehatesmarketers.com/articles/bikeshedding-marketing">Bikeshedding in Marketing: 3 Keys to Being an Effective Marketer</a></li></ul><p><br /></p><p>***</p><p>→ <strong>Buy my book:</strong> <a href="https://book.stfo.io/">book.stfo.io</a><br />→ <strong>Join 14,000+ weirdos who learn to stand the f*ck out with my daily (Mon-Fri) emails</strong>:<strong> </strong><a href="https://www.everyonehatesmarketers.com/">everyonehatesmarketers.com</a><br />→ <strong>See my pretty face on LinkedIn</strong>: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/</a><br />→ <strong>Leave a review on Apple Podcasts:</strong> <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/everyone-hates-marketers/id1221256195?itscg=30200S&amp;itsct=podcast_box">https://apple.co/3p4wL4r</a><br />→ <strong>Leave a review on Spotify:</strong> <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/7iEF1qovZZiaP1iRtxGARo">https://open.spotify.com/show/7iEF1qovZZiaP1iRtxGARo</a></p><p><br />Finally...</p><p>If you're curious about putting your brand in front of my 14,000+ daily newsletter subscribers and/or podcast listeners, email me: louis@stfo.io</p><p>🤘</p><br /><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Louis Grenier | Marketing & Branding, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: Everyone Hates Marketers | No-BS Marketing & Brand Strategy Podcast
Episode: Marketing Without a Budget: Grow Your Revenue with 0 Credibility or Advertising
Pub date: 2018-10-30

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/923fc3baad934fb39a37da8216e46d6f/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Louis Grenier | Marketing & Branding, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Thu, 23 Jan 2020 14:09:23 -0800</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/923fc3baad934fb39a37da8216e46d6f/</guid>
            
            <author>Louis Grenier | Marketing &amp; Branding</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/923fc3baad934fb39a37da8216e46d6f.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>Everyone Hates Marketers | No-BS Marketing &amp; Brand Strategy Podcast</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>01:02:17</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Louis Grenier | Marketing &amp; Branding</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/everyone-hates-marketers-no-bs-marketing-nFyjSKPDfeM-bzfnIVdcsgY.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>Joy Houston — Copywriting That Speaks Directly To Your Ideal Customer</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/af964682300044ec9f7caeaa74d49888</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/hustle-flowchart-mastering-business-kfIRcdEtZzU/">Hustle & Flowchart: Mastering Business & Enjoying the Journey</a> (LS 47 &middot; TOP 1% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/af964682300044ec9f7caeaa74d49888/">Joy Houston — Copywriting That Speaks Directly To Your Ideal Customer</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-02-14<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/af964682300044ec9f7caeaa74d49888/&notes=Joy Houston — Copywriting That Speaks Directly To Your Ideal Customer">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/hustle-flowchart-mastering-business-hq5ONw7ctFl-kfIRcdEtZzU.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>After changing her diet fixed Joy Houston’s fertility troubles she wanted to share what she had learned with other people suffering as she had. She created a nutrition course and marketed it with every tactic in the book. It failed hard. Then she realized she needed to talk with her customers to know how to actually connect with them.</p> <p>Joy developed her Conscious Copy Converts process based on interviews that revealed the motivating factors and precise language customers use during the full cycle of engagement with a brand. Her results not only get higher sales but a richer experience that elevates the lifetime value of customers by nurturing relationships that feel mutually beneficial rather than overtly promotional.</p> <p>Time to take your writing skills up another level as Joy Houston gives Matt and Joe her whole process to create powerful copywriting from scratch, what 4 personality types your copy needs to speak to, and how she charts the entire customer journey. When you’re done, check out our conversation with Joy’s husband <a href="https://evergreenprofits.com/product-launches-travis-houston/"> Travis</a> for more content strategies and get more copy advice from <a href="https://evergreenprofits.com/the-essential-elements-of-great-hooks-and-sales-copy-kevin-rogers/"> Kevin Rogers</a>.</p> <p><em>“When I write every piece of copy I don't think about thousands of people… I think about having a conversation with one person.”</em> -Joy Houston</p> Some Topics We Discussed Include: <ul> <li style="font-weight: 400;">The proof you need to be sure your product is viable</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">Why community building comes first, tactics second</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">Working with your spouse (it makes your marriage way better... and way worse)</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">Flowcharts to map all your customers’ choices</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">A process to get a team up to speed fast</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">Finding your authentic copywriter style</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">3 ways to harvest vital information from your audience</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">How to do psychological interviews with customers</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">One question that will improve your product (and tell you what your next product should be)</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">The 4 personality types your copy needs to attract</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">How to perfect writing in different styles and voices</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">A sales page template that works on everyone</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">What you need mapped out before you write one word of copy</li> </ul><br /> Contact Joy Houston: <ul> <li style="font-weight: 400;"><a href="http://launchr.co/">Launchr</a></li> <li style="font-weight: 400;"><a href="https://go.superfunnel.com/characterdiamond?r_done=1">Free Character Diamond Template</a></li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">Connect on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/deliciousjoy/">Instagram</a></li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">Or on <a href="https://twitter.com/joyhouston?lang=en">Twitter</a></li> </ul><br /> References and Links Mentioned: <ul> <li style="font-weight: 400;"><a href="https://lp.evergreenprofits.com/traffic-playbook?utm_campaign=hustleandflowchart&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_source=interview&amp;show=Hustle%20and%20Flowchart&amp;host=our%20guest"> Free Evergreen Traffic Playbook</a></li> <li style="font-weight: 400;"><a href="https://lp.evergreenprofits.com/pag-course">The Perpetual Audience Growth Course</a> – Learn how to drive consistent, high-quality traffic day in and day out</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;"><a href="http://go.evergreenprofits.com/genm">GenM</a> (<em>Sponsor</em>) – Find marketing apprentices for $50/mo</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;"><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Architecture-Persuasion-Write-Well-Constructed-Letters/dp/B002WQ5BDQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1550001443&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=architecture+of+persuasion"> The Architecture of Persuasion</a> by Michael Masterson</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;"><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Ready-Fire-Aim-Zero-Million/dp/0470182024/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1550001534&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=ready+fire+aim"> Ready, Fire, Aim</a> by Michael Masterson</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;"><a href="https://evergreenprofits.com/product-launches-travis-houston/"> A Unique Content System To Ensure Successful Product Launches</a> – Travis Houston</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;"><a href="https://evergreenprofits.com/the-essential-elements-of-great-hooks-and-sales-copy-kevin-rogers/"> The Essential Elements of Great Hooks And Sales Copy</a> – Kevin Rogers</li> </ul><br /><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Hustle & Flowchart, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/hustle-flowchart-mastering-business-kfIRcdEtZzU/">Hustle & Flowchart: Mastering Business & Enjoying the Journey</a> (LS 47 &middot; TOP 1% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/af964682300044ec9f7caeaa74d49888/">Joy Houston — Copywriting That Speaks Directly To Your Ideal Customer</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-02-14<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/af964682300044ec9f7caeaa74d49888/&notes=Joy Houston — Copywriting That Speaks Directly To Your Ideal Customer">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/hustle-flowchart-mastering-business-hq5ONw7ctFl-kfIRcdEtZzU.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>After changing her diet fixed Joy Houston’s fertility troubles she wanted to share what she had learned with other people suffering as she had. She created a nutrition course and marketed it with every tactic in the book. It failed hard. Then she realized she needed to talk with her customers to know how to actually connect with them.</p> <p>Joy developed her Conscious Copy Converts process based on interviews that revealed the motivating factors and precise language customers use during the full cycle of engagement with a brand. Her results not only get higher sales but a richer experience that elevates the lifetime value of customers by nurturing relationships that feel mutually beneficial rather than overtly promotional.</p> <p>Time to take your writing skills up another level as Joy Houston gives Matt and Joe her whole process to create powerful copywriting from scratch, what 4 personality types your copy needs to speak to, and how she charts the entire customer journey. When you’re done, check out our conversation with Joy’s husband <a href="https://evergreenprofits.com/product-launches-travis-houston/"> Travis</a> for more content strategies and get more copy advice from <a href="https://evergreenprofits.com/the-essential-elements-of-great-hooks-and-sales-copy-kevin-rogers/"> Kevin Rogers</a>.</p> <p><em>“When I write every piece of copy I don't think about thousands of people… I think about having a conversation with one person.”</em> -Joy Houston</p> Some Topics We Discussed Include: <ul> <li style="font-weight: 400;">The proof you need to be sure your product is viable</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">Why community building comes first, tactics second</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">Working with your spouse (it makes your marriage way better... and way worse)</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">Flowcharts to map all your customers’ choices</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">A process to get a team up to speed fast</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">Finding your authentic copywriter style</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">3 ways to harvest vital information from your audience</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">How to do psychological interviews with customers</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">One question that will improve your product (and tell you what your next product should be)</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">The 4 personality types your copy needs to attract</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">How to perfect writing in different styles and voices</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">A sales page template that works on everyone</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">What you need mapped out before you write one word of copy</li> </ul><br /> Contact Joy Houston: <ul> <li style="font-weight: 400;"><a href="http://launchr.co/">Launchr</a></li> <li style="font-weight: 400;"><a href="https://go.superfunnel.com/characterdiamond?r_done=1">Free Character Diamond Template</a></li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">Connect on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/deliciousjoy/">Instagram</a></li> <li style="font-weight: 400;">Or on <a href="https://twitter.com/joyhouston?lang=en">Twitter</a></li> </ul><br /> References and Links Mentioned: <ul> <li style="font-weight: 400;"><a href="https://lp.evergreenprofits.com/traffic-playbook?utm_campaign=hustleandflowchart&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_source=interview&amp;show=Hustle%20and%20Flowchart&amp;host=our%20guest"> Free Evergreen Traffic Playbook</a></li> <li style="font-weight: 400;"><a href="https://lp.evergreenprofits.com/pag-course">The Perpetual Audience Growth Course</a> – Learn how to drive consistent, high-quality traffic day in and day out</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;"><a href="http://go.evergreenprofits.com/genm">GenM</a> (<em>Sponsor</em>) – Find marketing apprentices for $50/mo</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;"><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Architecture-Persuasion-Write-Well-Constructed-Letters/dp/B002WQ5BDQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1550001443&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=architecture+of+persuasion"> The Architecture of Persuasion</a> by Michael Masterson</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;"><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Ready-Fire-Aim-Zero-Million/dp/0470182024/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1550001534&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=ready+fire+aim"> Ready, Fire, Aim</a> by Michael Masterson</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;"><a href="https://evergreenprofits.com/product-launches-travis-houston/"> A Unique Content System To Ensure Successful Product Launches</a> – Travis Houston</li> <li style="font-weight: 400;"><a href="https://evergreenprofits.com/the-essential-elements-of-great-hooks-and-sales-copy-kevin-rogers/"> The Essential Elements of Great Hooks And Sales Copy</a> – Kevin Rogers</li> </ul><br /><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Hustle & Flowchart, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: Hustle & Flowchart: Mastering Business & Enjoying the Journey
Episode: Joy Houston — Copywriting That Speaks Directly To Your Ideal Customer
Pub date: 2019-02-14

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/af964682300044ec9f7caeaa74d49888/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Hustle & Flowchart, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Fri, 23 Aug 2019 13:10:27 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/af964682300044ec9f7caeaa74d49888/</guid>
            
            <author>Hustle &amp; Flowchart</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/af964682300044ec9f7caeaa74d49888.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>Hustle &amp; Flowchart: Mastering Business &amp; Enjoying the Journey</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>01:22:23</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Hustle &amp; Flowchart</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/hustle-flowchart-mastering-business-foQviNsuWy9-kfIRcdEtZzU.1400x1400.jpg" />
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        <item>
            <title>8 Stepframework for Converting Strangers to Paying Customers with Ryan Deiss</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/694e5dab7d6d4b82a34aabc15bb7d8d4</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/elevate-with-jack-delosa-elevate-with-jack-cdS7s4vkiLn/">Elevate With Jack Delosa</a> (LS 44 &middot; TOP 1% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/694e5dab7d6d4b82a34aabc15bb7d8d4/">8 Stepframework for Converting Strangers to Paying Customers with Ryan Deiss</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-11-20<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/694e5dab7d6d4b82a34aabc15bb7d8d4/&notes=8 Stepframework for Converting Strangers to Paying Customers with Ryan Deiss">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/elevate-with-jack-delosa-elevate-with-jack-74aMJgCvN-l-cdS7s4vkiLn.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Would you take someone out on a first date and propose to them?

Of course not, that would be crazy… you need to get to know each other and build a relationship before you start thinking about marriage.  

Wait.. why am I talking about dating, aren’t I supposed to be the ‘business guy’?

Before you ask, no… The Entourage isn’t moving in a new direction. 

The reason I’m talking about dating is because how you turn strangers into paying customers online almost directly mimics the dating process. 

Trying to get an audience, who have NO idea who your business is, to buy from you online is the dating equivalent of  skipping the drinks and flowers, and going straight in with an engagement ring.

Unfortunately, too many business owners make this mistake, and then wonder why their Facebook ads aren’t working, or why their websites aren’t generating enough leads.

So the question remains… How do we turn strangers into customers and get them to a point where they’re not only buying from us, but getting their friends to buy from us too? 

Recently, I was fortunate enough to record a podcast with Ryan Deiss, Founder of Digital Marketer, who revealed his entire 8-step digital marketing framework to help business owners solve this exact problem. 

In the podcast we cover: 
- 8 essential steps to convert strangers into repeat customers and loyal fans
- The digital marketing mistakes business owners make (and how to avoid them)
- How to win at Facebook ads in 2018 and beyond<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Elevate With Jack Delosa, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/elevate-with-jack-delosa-elevate-with-jack-cdS7s4vkiLn/">Elevate With Jack Delosa</a> (LS 44 &middot; TOP 1% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/694e5dab7d6d4b82a34aabc15bb7d8d4/">8 Stepframework for Converting Strangers to Paying Customers with Ryan Deiss</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-11-20<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/694e5dab7d6d4b82a34aabc15bb7d8d4/&notes=8 Stepframework for Converting Strangers to Paying Customers with Ryan Deiss">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/elevate-with-jack-delosa-elevate-with-jack-74aMJgCvN-l-cdS7s4vkiLn.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Would you take someone out on a first date and propose to them?

Of course not, that would be crazy… you need to get to know each other and build a relationship before you start thinking about marriage.  

Wait.. why am I talking about dating, aren’t I supposed to be the ‘business guy’?

Before you ask, no… The Entourage isn’t moving in a new direction. 

The reason I’m talking about dating is because how you turn strangers into paying customers online almost directly mimics the dating process. 

Trying to get an audience, who have NO idea who your business is, to buy from you online is the dating equivalent of  skipping the drinks and flowers, and going straight in with an engagement ring.

Unfortunately, too many business owners make this mistake, and then wonder why their Facebook ads aren’t working, or why their websites aren’t generating enough leads.

So the question remains… How do we turn strangers into customers and get them to a point where they’re not only buying from us, but getting their friends to buy from us too? 

Recently, I was fortunate enough to record a podcast with Ryan Deiss, Founder of Digital Marketer, who revealed his entire 8-step digital marketing framework to help business owners solve this exact problem. 

In the podcast we cover: 
- 8 essential steps to convert strangers into repeat customers and loyal fans
- The digital marketing mistakes business owners make (and how to avoid them)
- How to win at Facebook ads in 2018 and beyond<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Elevate With Jack Delosa, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: Elevate With Jack Delosa
Episode: 8 Stepframework for Converting Strangers to Paying Customers with Ryan Deiss
Pub date: 2018-11-20

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/694e5dab7d6d4b82a34aabc15bb7d8d4/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Elevate With Jack Delosa, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sat, 27 Jul 2019 16:17:09 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/694e5dab7d6d4b82a34aabc15bb7d8d4/</guid>
            
            <author>Elevate With Jack Delosa</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/694e5dab7d6d4b82a34aabc15bb7d8d4.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>Elevate With Jack Delosa</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:45:09</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Elevate With Jack Delosa</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/elevate-with-jack-delosa-elevate-with-jack-tJOP-BiRpCv-cdS7s4vkiLn.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>The Quiet Power of Conversational Copy</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/b6ae9a4b6ae24ba1b9d89ca714a9354d</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-Fvu8iEyYf4q/">The HeyCreator Show</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/b6ae9a4b6ae24ba1b9d89ca714a9354d/">The Quiet Power of Conversational Copy</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-06-18<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/b6ae9a4b6ae24ba1b9d89ca714a9354d/&notes=The Quiet Power of Conversational Copy">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-z3VoNdj16cx-Fvu8iEyYf4q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>A lot of us feel a tension between effective copywriting and content that fully respects our audiences. “Conversational Copywriter” Nick Usborne joins us to talk about why that’s a false choice. Nick Usborne is an unusual writer. He has many years of direct response experience, but he talks more like a “content guy.” He’s here... Listen to episode<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-Fvu8iEyYf4q/">The HeyCreator Show</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/b6ae9a4b6ae24ba1b9d89ca714a9354d/">The Quiet Power of Conversational Copy</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-06-18<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/b6ae9a4b6ae24ba1b9d89ca714a9354d/&notes=The Quiet Power of Conversational Copy">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-z3VoNdj16cx-Fvu8iEyYf4q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>A lot of us feel a tension between effective copywriting and content that fully respects our audiences. “Conversational Copywriter” Nick Usborne joins us to talk about why that’s a false choice. Nick Usborne is an unusual writer. He has many years of direct response experience, but he talks more like a “content guy.” He’s here... Listen to episode<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The HeyCreator Show
Episode: The Quiet Power of Conversational Copy
Pub date: 2018-06-18

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/b6ae9a4b6ae24ba1b9d89ca714a9354d/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:15:02 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/b6ae9a4b6ae24ba1b9d89ca714a9354d/</guid>
            
            <author>HeyCreator</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/b6ae9a4b6ae24ba1b9d89ca714a9354d.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The HeyCreator Show</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:26:57</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>HeyCreator</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-wRq1L5pVBO4-Fvu8iEyYf4q.1400x1400.jpg" />
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        <item>
            <title>TCC Podcast #83: Copywriting Secrets Learned from a Legend with Bond Halbert</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/a4ed8c6e88594dd991a9ec9d89a0b7f4</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-rob-marsh-RKsN5kV_e-Q/">The Copywriter Club Podcast</a> (LS 49 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/a4ed8c6e88594dd991a9ec9d89a0b7f4/">TCC Podcast #83: Copywriting Secrets Learned from a Legend with Bond Halbert</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-03-15<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/a4ed8c6e88594dd991a9ec9d89a0b7f4/&notes=TCC Podcast #83: Copywriting Secrets Learned from a Legend with Bond Halbert">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-kira-hug-and-Ebh6cYFTX5g-RKsN5kV_e-Q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>In the direct response world everyone knows the name, Gary Halbert. He’s often called the best copywriter who ever lived. And if we could, we’d ask Gary to be on the show, but alas, that’s not possible, so we’ve done the next best thing. Bond Halbert is the guest for episode 83 of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira and Rob sat down with Bond to talk about his famous dad and the lessons he’s learned from a lifetime (literally) learning copy. We talked about:

•  his path into the world of copywriting (it all starts with his dad)
•  the story behind The Boron Letters and why Gary wrote them to Bond
•  why Gary Halbert went to prison for a crime he didn’t commit (really)
•  the 2-3 most important lessons he learned from Gary Halbert
•  how he divides his work into thirds
•  the four kinds of readers you’ll attract to your copy
•  why copywriters are good at headlines but bad at closes
•  what he does to nail the close
•  the importance being persuasive in person (not just in copy)
•  where good copy really comes from
•  what Bond’s research process involves
•  his hack for finding the problems your customers want to solve
•  why expertise is relative (the differing levels of expertise)
•  the formula he leans toward when he writes for his clients
•  why you need to create a compelling sense of urgency in every sales message (and how to do it)
•  why he wrote Part III of The Halbert Copywriting Method first
•  how he talks differently about positive and negative ideas in his copy (we hadn’t heard this anywhere else before)
•  how (and why) Bond’s relationship with money is different from his father’s

This interview was so good that it went a little long, but we think you'll learn a lot from the extra time we spent talking about copywriting. To get this one, visit iTunes, Stitcher or your favorite podcast app. Or simply click the play button below. And of course, you can scroll down for a full transcript.



 
The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:
The Boron Letters
Parris Lampropolous
How to Make Maximum Money in Minimal Time
Glenn Gary Glen Ross
Big Jason Henderson
Sam Markowitz
The Halbert Copywriting Writing Method, Part III
BondHalbert.com
TheGaryHalbertLetter.com
Halbertising.com
Email: bond@thegaryhalbertletter.com
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
Intro: Content (for now)
Outro: Gravity

 
Full Transcript:


Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast.

Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 83 as we talk with copywriter and marketer Bond Halbert about the most important lessons he learned from his father, the man many called the greatest copywriter ever lived; the story behind The Boron Letters; the formulas, tactics, and strategies he uses to make effective copy; and what he’s doing to carry on Gary’s legacy.

Rob: Hey Bond!

Kira: Welcome, Bond!

Bond: Hi! Thank you for having me here!

Rob: Yeah we’re thrilled to have you; when we made a list of all of the guests that we wanted to interview eventually on the podcast, your name was one of the first ones that we added, and so it’s taken us a little while to get to you, but we are glad that you’re finally here.

Bond: Oh! I didn’t know that, I would have come sooner! Laughs.

Kira: Laughs. This is perfect; perfect timing. Episode 83 is a good episode. So Bond, let’s start with your story, especially for people who are less familiar with you, you know; how—how did you get into this wonderful world of copywriting and marketing?

Bond: I’m going to try to make this really short, because I know I’ve given this to people who’ve heard me on other podcasts, and I like to give people as much, like, new stuff as I can, and tactical advice. Basically, my dad quit his last—got fired from his job—the day before I was born. And, he started getting into the world of copywriting and direct marketing on, basically, the day I was born. So, I grew up in the business, but, one day what happened was, I was talking to him—we were walking down the street—and my dad had this kind of rocky up-and-down relationship with money. And so, a lot of people don’t know it, but, you know, his ability to make money was only really eclipsed by his ability to blow it. And he didn’t do this on purpose—it took me many years to figure out that he was addicted to like, needing to have a big win, then making a big win. Laughs. And so, one time he was needing a big win, and I turned to him and said, “You know, I’m really lucky.” He said, “Why?” And I said, “My oldest brother got to grow up with, you know, all the toys and pleasures of being a rich kid. I get to see how to make it,” and he thought that was really, really smart thing for a ten-year-old to say. So, he singled me out and started, you know, because after... he started, you know, making money in copywriting. He made big wins, by breaking the rules and doing things the way he wanted; he decided he was going to parent that way too. So what he decided that what he was going to do is teach me from an early age; he wasn’t going to put me through the standard ‘go to high school; go to college’ blah blah blah blah. He started mentoring me right away, and he started taking me, you know, I was flying all over the country and internationally a little bit, on business trips so that I could learn what he was doing. He would explain what he was going to do; I would be in the meetings and hanging out with them, and then he would explain what happened in the meeting you know, afterwards—we called it, it was like from the military, we called it an “after action”, so, I started getting this incredibly early education. Even before that, I was stuffing, stamping, and sealing envelopes for test mailing as long as I can remember. I mean, as a little kid. Laughs.

Rob: Yeah.

Bond: So I’ve just been in direct response for ages, and that, that’s how I got into it. I know most people have a, you know, “I was sleeping in my car” story that everybody really appreciates—laughs. I...I just, you know. I was born into it, I will admit it. But I did earn everything that I know, you know? And a lot of times, what I would do it I would do a podcast or an interview and people would like, you know, do you mine talking about my dad, and I was like, “Sure, I love my dad; I’ll talk about him all day long, and if that’s all you want to talk about, I will.” But I little while into it, they’d realize it, you know, I did a lot of stuff on my own, and then eventually, my podcast, at the end, they stopped asking about my dad completely, and then recently we’ve been doing a lot more stuff to bring my dad’s, you know, highlight stuff. So, like, we’re going to be having a memorial seminar for his 80th birthday in June coming up. And, we do a lot of things to make sure that he’s not only in the spotlight still, which we don’t really have to do because as Parris Lampropoulos once said, “In the world of copy, all roads lead to Gary Halbert.” But, you know, to make sure that everybody knows that we don’t, we---everything. You know, my dad used to say this to me, and I give him credit  and I say it’s true. He says, you know, “Every single thing that you do well, I get credit for because I taught you how to think. Everything you don’t do well, well, that’s your mom or somebody else.” Laughs.

Rob: I like that; I like that, yeah.

Kira: Laughs.   

Rob: So Bond, the first time I think that I came across your name, I was reading The Boron Letters, which were letters that your dad wrote to you when he was spending some time in jail. I’m curious; you know, I think you were still really young when that happened, right? When you got those letters, was this stuff that resonated with you immediately, or did you sort of set them aside for a while, you know, until you were maybe mature enough to actually try out the things that Gary was telling you to do? Tell us the story behind that and, you know, how that all came about.

Bond: Well, I was fifteen—I turned sixteen while I was in there. So he was sending me the letters, but he was kind of more or less letting-getting his ideas down on paper and his thoughts and his lessons. You know, there were people who were friends of us that he would teach some stuff, but he didn’t really stop and like start mentoring, until me. And I’m not saying I’m his best mentee or anything like that. But what I am saying is, since I am the first, I saw these—all these lessons that he gave and training of all these copywriters that he’s famous for training. I was not only the first one, but I saw the lessons evolve over time, and stuff like this. So this was the very beginning of that. In fact, the Boron Letters is kind of like the outline for what turned out to be his newsletter. And then he took several of his key issues in his newsletter, and put them together in a book to produce his newsletter. The book was How to Make Maximum Money in Minimal Time, which will be available; again, CreateSpace, you know, stopped letting us use them unless they get a 70% commission, and we’re going to have that back up and ready to offer in about a week. But, in any case, that book promoted his newsletter, so this kind of started this whole thing: it was the Boron Letters. And for me, a lot of the lessons I was already getting for a long time but he was kind of rehashing stuff, but he was going into more detail. So it wasn’t as revolutionary to me when I received them. But what happened later, was I started to get a greater and greater appreciation. You know, when you’re older and you start to have kids you start to understand things about your parents that you get now, because you’re a parent,<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Rob Marsh, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-rob-marsh-RKsN5kV_e-Q/">The Copywriter Club Podcast</a> (LS 49 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/a4ed8c6e88594dd991a9ec9d89a0b7f4/">TCC Podcast #83: Copywriting Secrets Learned from a Legend with Bond Halbert</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-03-15<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/a4ed8c6e88594dd991a9ec9d89a0b7f4/&notes=TCC Podcast #83: Copywriting Secrets Learned from a Legend with Bond Halbert">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-kira-hug-and-Ebh6cYFTX5g-RKsN5kV_e-Q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>In the direct response world everyone knows the name, Gary Halbert. He’s often called the best copywriter who ever lived. And if we could, we’d ask Gary to be on the show, but alas, that’s not possible, so we’ve done the next best thing. Bond Halbert is the guest for episode 83 of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira and Rob sat down with Bond to talk about his famous dad and the lessons he’s learned from a lifetime (literally) learning copy. We talked about:

•  his path into the world of copywriting (it all starts with his dad)
•  the story behind The Boron Letters and why Gary wrote them to Bond
•  why Gary Halbert went to prison for a crime he didn’t commit (really)
•  the 2-3 most important lessons he learned from Gary Halbert
•  how he divides his work into thirds
•  the four kinds of readers you’ll attract to your copy
•  why copywriters are good at headlines but bad at closes
•  what he does to nail the close
•  the importance being persuasive in person (not just in copy)
•  where good copy really comes from
•  what Bond’s research process involves
•  his hack for finding the problems your customers want to solve
•  why expertise is relative (the differing levels of expertise)
•  the formula he leans toward when he writes for his clients
•  why you need to create a compelling sense of urgency in every sales message (and how to do it)
•  why he wrote Part III of The Halbert Copywriting Method first
•  how he talks differently about positive and negative ideas in his copy (we hadn’t heard this anywhere else before)
•  how (and why) Bond’s relationship with money is different from his father’s

This interview was so good that it went a little long, but we think you'll learn a lot from the extra time we spent talking about copywriting. To get this one, visit iTunes, Stitcher or your favorite podcast app. Or simply click the play button below. And of course, you can scroll down for a full transcript.



 
The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:
The Boron Letters
Parris Lampropolous
How to Make Maximum Money in Minimal Time
Glenn Gary Glen Ross
Big Jason Henderson
Sam Markowitz
The Halbert Copywriting Writing Method, Part III
BondHalbert.com
TheGaryHalbertLetter.com
Halbertising.com
Email: bond@thegaryhalbertletter.com
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
Intro: Content (for now)
Outro: Gravity

 
Full Transcript:


Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast.

Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 83 as we talk with copywriter and marketer Bond Halbert about the most important lessons he learned from his father, the man many called the greatest copywriter ever lived; the story behind The Boron Letters; the formulas, tactics, and strategies he uses to make effective copy; and what he’s doing to carry on Gary’s legacy.

Rob: Hey Bond!

Kira: Welcome, Bond!

Bond: Hi! Thank you for having me here!

Rob: Yeah we’re thrilled to have you; when we made a list of all of the guests that we wanted to interview eventually on the podcast, your name was one of the first ones that we added, and so it’s taken us a little while to get to you, but we are glad that you’re finally here.

Bond: Oh! I didn’t know that, I would have come sooner! Laughs.

Kira: Laughs. This is perfect; perfect timing. Episode 83 is a good episode. So Bond, let’s start with your story, especially for people who are less familiar with you, you know; how—how did you get into this wonderful world of copywriting and marketing?

Bond: I’m going to try to make this really short, because I know I’ve given this to people who’ve heard me on other podcasts, and I like to give people as much, like, new stuff as I can, and tactical advice. Basically, my dad quit his last—got fired from his job—the day before I was born. And, he started getting into the world of copywriting and direct marketing on, basically, the day I was born. So, I grew up in the business, but, one day what happened was, I was talking to him—we were walking down the street—and my dad had this kind of rocky up-and-down relationship with money. And so, a lot of people don’t know it, but, you know, his ability to make money was only really eclipsed by his ability to blow it. And he didn’t do this on purpose—it took me many years to figure out that he was addicted to like, needing to have a big win, then making a big win. Laughs. And so, one time he was needing a big win, and I turned to him and said, “You know, I’m really lucky.” He said, “Why?” And I said, “My oldest brother got to grow up with, you know, all the toys and pleasures of being a rich kid. I get to see how to make it,” and he thought that was really, really smart thing for a ten-year-old to say. So, he singled me out and started, you know, because after... he started, you know, making money in copywriting. He made big wins, by breaking the rules and doing things the way he wanted; he decided he was going to parent that way too. So what he decided that what he was going to do is teach me from an early age; he wasn’t going to put me through the standard ‘go to high school; go to college’ blah blah blah blah. He started mentoring me right away, and he started taking me, you know, I was flying all over the country and internationally a little bit, on business trips so that I could learn what he was doing. He would explain what he was going to do; I would be in the meetings and hanging out with them, and then he would explain what happened in the meeting you know, afterwards—we called it, it was like from the military, we called it an “after action”, so, I started getting this incredibly early education. Even before that, I was stuffing, stamping, and sealing envelopes for test mailing as long as I can remember. I mean, as a little kid. Laughs.

Rob: Yeah.

Bond: So I’ve just been in direct response for ages, and that, that’s how I got into it. I know most people have a, you know, “I was sleeping in my car” story that everybody really appreciates—laughs. I...I just, you know. I was born into it, I will admit it. But I did earn everything that I know, you know? And a lot of times, what I would do it I would do a podcast or an interview and people would like, you know, do you mine talking about my dad, and I was like, “Sure, I love my dad; I’ll talk about him all day long, and if that’s all you want to talk about, I will.” But I little while into it, they’d realize it, you know, I did a lot of stuff on my own, and then eventually, my podcast, at the end, they stopped asking about my dad completely, and then recently we’ve been doing a lot more stuff to bring my dad’s, you know, highlight stuff. So, like, we’re going to be having a memorial seminar for his 80th birthday in June coming up. And, we do a lot of things to make sure that he’s not only in the spotlight still, which we don’t really have to do because as Parris Lampropoulos once said, “In the world of copy, all roads lead to Gary Halbert.” But, you know, to make sure that everybody knows that we don’t, we---everything. You know, my dad used to say this to me, and I give him credit  and I say it’s true. He says, you know, “Every single thing that you do well, I get credit for because I taught you how to think. Everything you don’t do well, well, that’s your mom or somebody else.” Laughs.

Rob: I like that; I like that, yeah.

Kira: Laughs.   

Rob: So Bond, the first time I think that I came across your name, I was reading The Boron Letters, which were letters that your dad wrote to you when he was spending some time in jail. I’m curious; you know, I think you were still really young when that happened, right? When you got those letters, was this stuff that resonated with you immediately, or did you sort of set them aside for a while, you know, until you were maybe mature enough to actually try out the things that Gary was telling you to do? Tell us the story behind that and, you know, how that all came about.

Bond: Well, I was fifteen—I turned sixteen while I was in there. So he was sending me the letters, but he was kind of more or less letting-getting his ideas down on paper and his thoughts and his lessons. You know, there were people who were friends of us that he would teach some stuff, but he didn’t really stop and like start mentoring, until me. And I’m not saying I’m his best mentee or anything like that. But what I am saying is, since I am the first, I saw these—all these lessons that he gave and training of all these copywriters that he’s famous for training. I was not only the first one, but I saw the lessons evolve over time, and stuff like this. So this was the very beginning of that. In fact, the Boron Letters is kind of like the outline for what turned out to be his newsletter. And then he took several of his key issues in his newsletter, and put them together in a book to produce his newsletter. The book was How to Make Maximum Money in Minimal Time, which will be available; again, CreateSpace, you know, stopped letting us use them unless they get a 70% commission, and we’re going to have that back up and ready to offer in about a week. But, in any case, that book promoted his newsletter, so this kind of started this whole thing: it was the Boron Letters. And for me, a lot of the lessons I was already getting for a long time but he was kind of rehashing stuff, but he was going into more detail. So it wasn’t as revolutionary to me when I received them. But what happened later, was I started to get a greater and greater appreciation. You know, when you’re older and you start to have kids you start to understand things about your parents that you get now, because you’re a parent,<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Rob Marsh, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The Copywriter Club Podcast
Episode: TCC Podcast #83: Copywriting Secrets Learned from a Legend with Bond Halbert
Pub date: 2018-03-15

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/a4ed8c6e88594dd991a9ec9d89a0b7f4/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Rob Marsh, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:14:56 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/a4ed8c6e88594dd991a9ec9d89a0b7f4/</guid>
            
            <author>Rob Marsh</author>



            
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            <itunes:subtitle>The Copywriter Club Podcast</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>01:04:39</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Rob Marsh</itunes:author>
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        <item>
            <title>Headline Ideas to Get Attention Without Spending a Fortune</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/2252dcace34c434c9b2ccbc75512fbaa</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/leveling-up-with-eric-siu-eric-siu-IOm9gr7f_yb/">Leveling Up with Eric Siu</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/2252dcace34c434c9b2ccbc75512fbaa/">Headline Ideas to Get Attention Without Spending a Fortune</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-04-26<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/2252dcace34c434c9b2ccbc75512fbaa/&notes=Headline Ideas to Get Attention Without Spending a Fortune">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/leveling-up-with-eric-siu-eric-siu-7wxHPQ4E-tA-IOm9gr7f_yb.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>Want to learn how to write enticing, proven-to-convert ad headlines and copy, without paying for one of those copywriting courses?</p> <p>Tune in to hear Eric Siu's list of cost-effective ways to level up your copywriting and create killer ads.  If you are interested in digital marketing or social media marketing, you'll find that learning copywriting is a very important skill!</p> <p><a href="https://youtu.be/00AZkC59vVA?utm_source=libsyn&amp;utm_medium=post"> Click here to watch the full YouTube video</a></p> <p>Leave Some Feedback:</p> <ul> <li>What should I talk about next? Who should I interview? Please let me know on Twitter or in the comments below.</li> <li>Did you enjoy this episode? If so, leave a <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/growth-everywhere/id741544976?mt=2&amp;ign-mpt=uo%3D4">short review here</a>.</li> <li>Subscribe to <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/growth-everywhere/id741544976?mt=2&amp;ign-mpt=uo%3D4">Growth Everywhere on iTunes</a>.</li> <li><a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/growtheverywhere">Get the non-iTunes RSS feed</a></li> </ul> <p>Connect with Eric Siu:</p> <ul> <li><a href="https://growtheverywhere.com/">Growth Everywhere</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.singlegrain.com/">Single Grain</a></li> <li><a href="https://twitter.com/ericosiu">Twitter @EricSiu</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.instagram.com/ericosiu/">Instagram @Ericosiu</a></li> </ul><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Eric Siu, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/leveling-up-with-eric-siu-eric-siu-IOm9gr7f_yb/">Leveling Up with Eric Siu</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/2252dcace34c434c9b2ccbc75512fbaa/">Headline Ideas to Get Attention Without Spending a Fortune</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-04-26<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/2252dcace34c434c9b2ccbc75512fbaa/&notes=Headline Ideas to Get Attention Without Spending a Fortune">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/leveling-up-with-eric-siu-eric-siu-7wxHPQ4E-tA-IOm9gr7f_yb.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>Want to learn how to write enticing, proven-to-convert ad headlines and copy, without paying for one of those copywriting courses?</p> <p>Tune in to hear Eric Siu's list of cost-effective ways to level up your copywriting and create killer ads.  If you are interested in digital marketing or social media marketing, you'll find that learning copywriting is a very important skill!</p> <p><a href="https://youtu.be/00AZkC59vVA?utm_source=libsyn&amp;utm_medium=post"> Click here to watch the full YouTube video</a></p> <p>Leave Some Feedback:</p> <ul> <li>What should I talk about next? Who should I interview? Please let me know on Twitter or in the comments below.</li> <li>Did you enjoy this episode? If so, leave a <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/growth-everywhere/id741544976?mt=2&amp;ign-mpt=uo%3D4">short review here</a>.</li> <li>Subscribe to <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/growth-everywhere/id741544976?mt=2&amp;ign-mpt=uo%3D4">Growth Everywhere on iTunes</a>.</li> <li><a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/growtheverywhere">Get the non-iTunes RSS feed</a></li> </ul> <p>Connect with Eric Siu:</p> <ul> <li><a href="https://growtheverywhere.com/">Growth Everywhere</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.singlegrain.com/">Single Grain</a></li> <li><a href="https://twitter.com/ericosiu">Twitter @EricSiu</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.instagram.com/ericosiu/">Instagram @Ericosiu</a></li> </ul><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Eric Siu, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: Leveling Up with Eric Siu
Episode: Headline Ideas to Get Attention Without Spending a Fortune
Pub date: 2019-04-26

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/2252dcace34c434c9b2ccbc75512fbaa/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Eric Siu, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:14:44 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/2252dcace34c434c9b2ccbc75512fbaa/</guid>
            
            <author>Eric Siu</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/2252dcace34c434c9b2ccbc75512fbaa.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>Leveling Up with Eric Siu</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:03:04</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Eric Siu</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/leveling-up-with-eric-siu-eric-siu-WL7MYXozuC5-IOm9gr7f_yb.1400x1400.jpg" />
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        <item>
            <title>The 7 Things Writers Need to Make a (Good) Living</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/401426c8d775491e92334a4bc673eb16</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-Fvu8iEyYf4q/">The HeyCreator Show</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/401426c8d775491e92334a4bc673eb16/">The 7 Things Writers Need to Make a (Good) Living</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-09-04<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/401426c8d775491e92334a4bc673eb16/&notes=The 7 Things Writers Need to Make a (Good) Living">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-z3VoNdj16cx-Fvu8iEyYf4q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Ever been frustrated by the daunting task of making a (really good) living as a writer? I have some thoughts on what it takes … Your friends and family might think you’re nuts for pursuing it, but it’s more possible than ever to make a good living as a writer — but (in my opinion),... Listen to episode<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-Fvu8iEyYf4q/">The HeyCreator Show</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/401426c8d775491e92334a4bc673eb16/">The 7 Things Writers Need to Make a (Good) Living</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-09-04<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/401426c8d775491e92334a4bc673eb16/&notes=The 7 Things Writers Need to Make a (Good) Living">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-z3VoNdj16cx-Fvu8iEyYf4q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Ever been frustrated by the daunting task of making a (really good) living as a writer? I have some thoughts on what it takes … Your friends and family might think you’re nuts for pursuing it, but it’s more possible than ever to make a good living as a writer — but (in my opinion),... Listen to episode<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The HeyCreator Show
Episode: The 7 Things Writers Need to Make a (Good) Living
Pub date: 2018-09-04

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/401426c8d775491e92334a4bc673eb16/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:14:29 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/401426c8d775491e92334a4bc673eb16/</guid>
            
            <author>HeyCreator</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/401426c8d775491e92334a4bc673eb16.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The HeyCreator Show</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:15:00</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>HeyCreator</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-wRq1L5pVBO4-Fvu8iEyYf4q.1400x1400.jpg" />
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        <item>
            <title>A 10-Step ‘Checklist’ for Your Content Marketing Site</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/8a0141e7ac00499fa73c79d7fc31bde6</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-Fvu8iEyYf4q/">The HeyCreator Show</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/8a0141e7ac00499fa73c79d7fc31bde6/">A 10-Step ‘Checklist’ for Your Content Marketing Site</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-08-06<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/8a0141e7ac00499fa73c79d7fc31bde6/&notes=A 10-Step ‘Checklist’ for Your Content Marketing Site">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-z3VoNdj16cx-Fvu8iEyYf4q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Have a new content site, or an existing site that needs more focus? Here’s a “checklist” of 10 things to keep in mind. Whether you’re starting a brand-new content site or have one that just needs a spruce-up, great sites tend to share similar habits and structures. Today, I talk about ten things to keep... Listen to episode<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-Fvu8iEyYf4q/">The HeyCreator Show</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/8a0141e7ac00499fa73c79d7fc31bde6/">A 10-Step ‘Checklist’ for Your Content Marketing Site</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-08-06<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/8a0141e7ac00499fa73c79d7fc31bde6/&notes=A 10-Step ‘Checklist’ for Your Content Marketing Site">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-z3VoNdj16cx-Fvu8iEyYf4q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Have a new content site, or an existing site that needs more focus? Here’s a “checklist” of 10 things to keep in mind. Whether you’re starting a brand-new content site or have one that just needs a spruce-up, great sites tend to share similar habits and structures. Today, I talk about ten things to keep... Listen to episode<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The HeyCreator Show
Episode: A 10-Step ‘Checklist’ for Your Content Marketing Site
Pub date: 2018-08-06

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/8a0141e7ac00499fa73c79d7fc31bde6/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:14:22 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/8a0141e7ac00499fa73c79d7fc31bde6/</guid>
            
            <author>HeyCreator</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/8a0141e7ac00499fa73c79d7fc31bde6.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The HeyCreator Show</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:19:14</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>HeyCreator</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-wRq1L5pVBO4-Fvu8iEyYf4q.1400x1400.jpg" />
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        <item>
            <title>The 3 Plus 1 Foundational Elements of Effective Persuasion</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/67b75dffa68948cabc55c9c9565c63e7</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-Fvu8iEyYf4q/">The HeyCreator Show</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/67b75dffa68948cabc55c9c9565c63e7/">The 3 Plus 1 Foundational Elements of Effective Persuasion</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-10-29<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/67b75dffa68948cabc55c9c9565c63e7/&notes=The 3 Plus 1 Foundational Elements of Effective Persuasion">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-z3VoNdj16cx-Fvu8iEyYf4q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>The foundation you choose for your persuasive copy can make all the difference. I’m sometimes asked — do I think that high-priced copywriting courses are worth the money? Often the answer is absolutely Yes. But it’s really important to make sure you’re building advanced techniques on the right foundation. In this 17-minute episode, I talk... Listen to episode<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-Fvu8iEyYf4q/">The HeyCreator Show</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/67b75dffa68948cabc55c9c9565c63e7/">The 3 Plus 1 Foundational Elements of Effective Persuasion</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-10-29<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/67b75dffa68948cabc55c9c9565c63e7/&notes=The 3 Plus 1 Foundational Elements of Effective Persuasion">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-z3VoNdj16cx-Fvu8iEyYf4q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>The foundation you choose for your persuasive copy can make all the difference. I’m sometimes asked — do I think that high-priced copywriting courses are worth the money? Often the answer is absolutely Yes. But it’s really important to make sure you’re building advanced techniques on the right foundation. In this 17-minute episode, I talk... Listen to episode<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The HeyCreator Show
Episode: The 3 Plus 1 Foundational Elements of Effective Persuasion
Pub date: 2018-10-29

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/67b75dffa68948cabc55c9c9565c63e7/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:13:31 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/67b75dffa68948cabc55c9c9565c63e7/</guid>
            
            <author>HeyCreator</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/67b75dffa68948cabc55c9c9565c63e7.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The HeyCreator Show</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:16:46</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>HeyCreator</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-wRq1L5pVBO4-Fvu8iEyYf4q.1400x1400.jpg" />
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        <item>
            <title>Joanna Wiebe | Conversion Copywriting: Execute Closer to the Transaction</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/41d3234b0cdb4865a36f228ffa394205</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-jeff-large-podcast-jeff-large-lZMozqesGYD/">The Jeff Large Podcast</a> (LS 28 &middot; TOP 10% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/41d3234b0cdb4865a36f228ffa394205/">Joanna Wiebe | Conversion Copywriting: Execute Closer to the Transaction</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-02-19<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/41d3234b0cdb4865a36f228ffa394205/&notes=Joanna Wiebe | Conversion Copywriting: Execute Closer to the Transaction">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-jeff-large-podcast-jeff-large-lZMozqesGYD.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p><img loading="lazy" class="alignright wp-image-1465" src="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Copy-300x200.jpg" alt="Copy" width="400" height="267" srcset="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Copy-300x200.jpg 300w, https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Copy.jpg 600w" sizes="(max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px" />Joanna cuts straight to the point. She says there are not a lot of copywriters who get what copywriting really is. Because “expert” and “copy” are terms that are thrown around loosely, the space quickly becomes confusing.</p>
<p>Copy is everywhere, and copywriting exists to get people to say something. Since the version of yes that you are trying to get them to say comes in many different forms, the actual results can become vague.</p>
<p>But as a business, you don’t want vague. If you’re investing in copy, you need a business result.</p>
<h2>Be a Student of Copy</h2>
<p>Joanna believes all business owners should start out writing their own copy, to understand what truly good copy is.</p>
<p>Copy must convert and persuade. Pay attention to what is going on around you and keep a swipe file. A swipe file should be anything that caught your attention and made you have a reaction. You need to be a student of copy.</p>
<p>Once you’ve done that, go find the why and understand why you keep responding to these various pieces of content. By teaching yourself these things, then you can start testing them and implementing them in your own space.</p>
<blockquote><p><img loading="lazy" class="alignleft wp-image-1466" src="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Learn-200x300.jpg" alt="Learn" width="267" height="400" srcset="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Learn-200x300.jpg 200w, https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Learn.jpg 400w" sizes="(max-width: 267px) 100vw, 267px" />“What works… is basically eavesdropping on your customers… where are your visitors, where are your prospects, what are they talking about, what are they saying they care about and why don’t you just use exactly the language they use? They’re already speaking in natural language, why wouldn’t you just go take what they’re saying?”</p></blockquote>
<p>Source this from surveys, customer reviews, interviews, competitor’s reviews and you’ll be amazed at what people share and how deep they go.</p>
<p>As a student of copy, Joanna is always reading and upping the intensity to continue learning and growing. Then, it’s time to test these hypotheses and see what they can contribute to the conversation.</p>
<p>Listening to your customers and prospects is part of the research process, which will make or break you. This is how you write content and copy that makes people care, because you are able to get into their heads.</p>
<h2>Selective Hearing: A Skill</h2>
<p>When it comes to listening to customer feedback, Joanna is also selective. As someone who is deeply affected by negativity, she takes notes and useful feedback but doesn’t let anyone shove her away from her vision.</p>
<p><img loading="lazy" class="alignright wp-image-1467" src="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Listen-300x201.jpg" alt="Listen" width="400" height="267" srcset="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Listen-300x201.jpg 300w, https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Listen.jpg 600w" sizes="(max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px" />Joanna references Game of Thrones, and how easy it is to overlook yourself as a trusted authority to make decisions. In reality, you’ve been making them all along. You don’t always need permission from your advisors.</p>
<p>You could apply the same mindset to the advice she is sharing in this podcast. Joanna says that as much as she can say, do this and don’t do that, you won’t truly know what works until you put it in front of your audience.</p>
<blockquote><p>“Never expect that things that work for other people will work for you. Take them, try them, but don’t just blindly go forward with what you learn in a blog post or what someone told you works really well.”</p></blockquote>
<h2>Testing isn’t Optional</h2>
<p>Because we are in a constant state of optimization, you have to keep reading and studying and evolving, and that’s why testing is so important.</p>
<p>Businesses know they should test, but they get impatient because it takes time to create an effective plan that gives real results. However, Joanna says that the best way to combat this impatience is to focus on the smaller checkpoints.</p>
<p>The sooner you can get the client quick wins through emails or Facebook ads, they will be more willing to take the time for testing something that takes a lot longer like a landing page.</p>
<h2>Focus and Execute</h2>
<p>You hear about all of these trends which makes it hard to focus on what is important. What should you work on? Joanna says you should focus on getting better at one thing: executing closer to where the money changes hands.</p>
<blockquote><p><img loading="lazy" class="alignleft wp-image-1468" src="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Connect-300x200.jpg" alt="Connect" width="400" height="267" srcset="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Connect-300x200.jpg 300w, https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Connect.jpg 600w" sizes="(max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px" />“You get to the point where you realize well hold on, it all really does come down to what’s on the page or what’s in the email because that’s where we talk to the customer. That’s the customer interaction point. That’s where the money can change hands. Although the theory in all of that other stuff is good, we find that we get a lot of referrals to us from the consultancies that are up at the top of that where they’re like ‘Ah, we need to execute on something now.’ And I’m like ‘Yeah, you do! You should have been executing on it the whole time!’ Invest closest to it where the money changes hands.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Connect with customers and focus on copy that converts. It’s the words you use that get people to say yes.</p>
<blockquote><p>“You tend to want to edit out the feeling, but that’s where the sale starts to happen where they’re actually feeling that pain and then you get into that solution.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Joanna talks about the importance of defining the problem and illustrating moments where the client suffered because of the problem. Once the client is feeling the pain of the specific problem you are going to solve, that’s when you solve it for them.</p>
<p>Her challenge to you is a tough one: in the next thing that you write, specifically a landing page, no more than 10% of the words can be yours. Goodluck!</p>
<p><strong>Contact:</strong><br />
<a href="https://twitter.com/copyhackers">Twitter</a><br />
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/wordworkers/about/">Word Workers</a><br />
<a href="http://Copyhackers.com">Copyhackers.com</a><br />
<a href="http://Airstory.co">Airstory.co</a></p>
<p><strong>Credits:</strong><br />
Hosted by <a href="http://JeffLarge.com">JeffLarge.com/about</a><br />
Produced and Powered by <a href="http://ComeAliveCreative.com">ComeAliveCreative.com</a><br />
Music provided by <a href="http://SoundCloud.com/Birocratic">Birocratic</a></p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Jeff Large, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-jeff-large-podcast-jeff-large-lZMozqesGYD/">The Jeff Large Podcast</a> (LS 28 &middot; TOP 10% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/41d3234b0cdb4865a36f228ffa394205/">Joanna Wiebe | Conversion Copywriting: Execute Closer to the Transaction</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-02-19<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/41d3234b0cdb4865a36f228ffa394205/&notes=Joanna Wiebe | Conversion Copywriting: Execute Closer to the Transaction">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-jeff-large-podcast-jeff-large-lZMozqesGYD.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p><img loading="lazy" class="alignright wp-image-1465" src="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Copy-300x200.jpg" alt="Copy" width="400" height="267" srcset="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Copy-300x200.jpg 300w, https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Copy.jpg 600w" sizes="(max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px" />Joanna cuts straight to the point. She says there are not a lot of copywriters who get what copywriting really is. Because “expert” and “copy” are terms that are thrown around loosely, the space quickly becomes confusing.</p>
<p>Copy is everywhere, and copywriting exists to get people to say something. Since the version of yes that you are trying to get them to say comes in many different forms, the actual results can become vague.</p>
<p>But as a business, you don’t want vague. If you’re investing in copy, you need a business result.</p>
<h2>Be a Student of Copy</h2>
<p>Joanna believes all business owners should start out writing their own copy, to understand what truly good copy is.</p>
<p>Copy must convert and persuade. Pay attention to what is going on around you and keep a swipe file. A swipe file should be anything that caught your attention and made you have a reaction. You need to be a student of copy.</p>
<p>Once you’ve done that, go find the why and understand why you keep responding to these various pieces of content. By teaching yourself these things, then you can start testing them and implementing them in your own space.</p>
<blockquote><p><img loading="lazy" class="alignleft wp-image-1466" src="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Learn-200x300.jpg" alt="Learn" width="267" height="400" srcset="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Learn-200x300.jpg 200w, https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Learn.jpg 400w" sizes="(max-width: 267px) 100vw, 267px" />“What works… is basically eavesdropping on your customers… where are your visitors, where are your prospects, what are they talking about, what are they saying they care about and why don’t you just use exactly the language they use? They’re already speaking in natural language, why wouldn’t you just go take what they’re saying?”</p></blockquote>
<p>Source this from surveys, customer reviews, interviews, competitor’s reviews and you’ll be amazed at what people share and how deep they go.</p>
<p>As a student of copy, Joanna is always reading and upping the intensity to continue learning and growing. Then, it’s time to test these hypotheses and see what they can contribute to the conversation.</p>
<p>Listening to your customers and prospects is part of the research process, which will make or break you. This is how you write content and copy that makes people care, because you are able to get into their heads.</p>
<h2>Selective Hearing: A Skill</h2>
<p>When it comes to listening to customer feedback, Joanna is also selective. As someone who is deeply affected by negativity, she takes notes and useful feedback but doesn’t let anyone shove her away from her vision.</p>
<p><img loading="lazy" class="alignright wp-image-1467" src="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Listen-300x201.jpg" alt="Listen" width="400" height="267" srcset="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Listen-300x201.jpg 300w, https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Listen.jpg 600w" sizes="(max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px" />Joanna references Game of Thrones, and how easy it is to overlook yourself as a trusted authority to make decisions. In reality, you’ve been making them all along. You don’t always need permission from your advisors.</p>
<p>You could apply the same mindset to the advice she is sharing in this podcast. Joanna says that as much as she can say, do this and don’t do that, you won’t truly know what works until you put it in front of your audience.</p>
<blockquote><p>“Never expect that things that work for other people will work for you. Take them, try them, but don’t just blindly go forward with what you learn in a blog post or what someone told you works really well.”</p></blockquote>
<h2>Testing isn’t Optional</h2>
<p>Because we are in a constant state of optimization, you have to keep reading and studying and evolving, and that’s why testing is so important.</p>
<p>Businesses know they should test, but they get impatient because it takes time to create an effective plan that gives real results. However, Joanna says that the best way to combat this impatience is to focus on the smaller checkpoints.</p>
<p>The sooner you can get the client quick wins through emails or Facebook ads, they will be more willing to take the time for testing something that takes a lot longer like a landing page.</p>
<h2>Focus and Execute</h2>
<p>You hear about all of these trends which makes it hard to focus on what is important. What should you work on? Joanna says you should focus on getting better at one thing: executing closer to where the money changes hands.</p>
<blockquote><p><img loading="lazy" class="alignleft wp-image-1468" src="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Connect-300x200.jpg" alt="Connect" width="400" height="267" srcset="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Connect-300x200.jpg 300w, https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Connect.jpg 600w" sizes="(max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px" />“You get to the point where you realize well hold on, it all really does come down to what’s on the page or what’s in the email because that’s where we talk to the customer. That’s the customer interaction point. That’s where the money can change hands. Although the theory in all of that other stuff is good, we find that we get a lot of referrals to us from the consultancies that are up at the top of that where they’re like ‘Ah, we need to execute on something now.’ And I’m like ‘Yeah, you do! You should have been executing on it the whole time!’ Invest closest to it where the money changes hands.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Connect with customers and focus on copy that converts. It’s the words you use that get people to say yes.</p>
<blockquote><p>“You tend to want to edit out the feeling, but that’s where the sale starts to happen where they’re actually feeling that pain and then you get into that solution.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Joanna talks about the importance of defining the problem and illustrating moments where the client suffered because of the problem. Once the client is feeling the pain of the specific problem you are going to solve, that’s when you solve it for them.</p>
<p>Her challenge to you is a tough one: in the next thing that you write, specifically a landing page, no more than 10% of the words can be yours. Goodluck!</p>
<p><strong>Contact:</strong><br />
<a href="https://twitter.com/copyhackers">Twitter</a><br />
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/wordworkers/about/">Word Workers</a><br />
<a href="http://Copyhackers.com">Copyhackers.com</a><br />
<a href="http://Airstory.co">Airstory.co</a></p>
<p><strong>Credits:</strong><br />
Hosted by <a href="http://JeffLarge.com">JeffLarge.com/about</a><br />
Produced and Powered by <a href="http://ComeAliveCreative.com">ComeAliveCreative.com</a><br />
Music provided by <a href="http://SoundCloud.com/Birocratic">Birocratic</a></p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Jeff Large, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The Jeff Large Podcast
Episode: Joanna Wiebe | Conversion Copywriting: Execute Closer to the Transaction
Pub date: 2018-02-19

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/41d3234b0cdb4865a36f228ffa394205/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Jeff Large, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:13:22 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/41d3234b0cdb4865a36f228ffa394205/</guid>
            
            <author>Jeff Large</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/41d3234b0cdb4865a36f228ffa394205.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The Jeff Large Podcast</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:52:38</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Jeff Large</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-jeff-large-podcast-jeff-large-lZMozqesGYD.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>Real Talk about Generating High-Quality Content</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/3946b835dbc34367be307844c410ecf4</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-Fvu8iEyYf4q/">The HeyCreator Show</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/3946b835dbc34367be307844c410ecf4/">Real Talk about Generating High-Quality Content</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-01-21<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/3946b835dbc34367be307844c410ecf4/&notes=Real Talk about Generating High-Quality Content">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-z3VoNdj16cx-Fvu8iEyYf4q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Thoughts on how to create really good content … without a huge team or an unlimited budget Content strategist Ronell Smith joins us this week to talk about how to tackle high-quality content … even if you don’t have all the time and money in the world. In this 29-minute episode, I chat with Ronell... Listen to episode<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-Fvu8iEyYf4q/">The HeyCreator Show</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/3946b835dbc34367be307844c410ecf4/">Real Talk about Generating High-Quality Content</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-01-21<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/3946b835dbc34367be307844c410ecf4/&notes=Real Talk about Generating High-Quality Content">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-z3VoNdj16cx-Fvu8iEyYf4q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Thoughts on how to create really good content … without a huge team or an unlimited budget Content strategist Ronell Smith joins us this week to talk about how to tackle high-quality content … even if you don’t have all the time and money in the world. In this 29-minute episode, I chat with Ronell... Listen to episode<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The HeyCreator Show
Episode: Real Talk about Generating High-Quality Content
Pub date: 2019-01-21

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/3946b835dbc34367be307844c410ecf4/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:13:11 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/3946b835dbc34367be307844c410ecf4/</guid>
            
            <author>HeyCreator</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/3946b835dbc34367be307844c410ecf4.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The HeyCreator Show</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:29:00</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>HeyCreator</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-wRq1L5pVBO4-Fvu8iEyYf4q.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>SBM 129: Email Copywriting Best Practices from a 100 Top Marketers with Brandon Olson</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/7e9d4c4b1207466e946a366e583b10e1</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-smart-brand-marketing-podcast-online--0reTmja6LS/">The Smart Brand Marketing Podcast: Online Business | Content Marketing | SEO | Sales | Lifestyle Design</a> (LS 39 &middot; TOP 2% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/7e9d4c4b1207466e946a366e583b10e1/">SBM 129: Email Copywriting Best Practices from a 100 Top Marketers with Brandon Olson</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-03-22<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/7e9d4c4b1207466e946a366e583b10e1/&notes=SBM 129: Email Copywriting Best Practices from a 100 Top Marketers with Brandon Olson">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-smart-brand-marketing-podcast-online-oR4_xFcXHsh--0reTmja6LS.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Brandon Olson compiles email copywriting best practices from top marketers, offering actionable tips for enhancing email campaigns.<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Tom Libelt: Lifestyle Entrepreneur, Small Business Consultant & SEO Expert, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-smart-brand-marketing-podcast-online--0reTmja6LS/">The Smart Brand Marketing Podcast: Online Business | Content Marketing | SEO | Sales | Lifestyle Design</a> (LS 39 &middot; TOP 2% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/7e9d4c4b1207466e946a366e583b10e1/">SBM 129: Email Copywriting Best Practices from a 100 Top Marketers with Brandon Olson</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-03-22<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/7e9d4c4b1207466e946a366e583b10e1/&notes=SBM 129: Email Copywriting Best Practices from a 100 Top Marketers with Brandon Olson">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-smart-brand-marketing-podcast-online-oR4_xFcXHsh--0reTmja6LS.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Brandon Olson compiles email copywriting best practices from top marketers, offering actionable tips for enhancing email campaigns.<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Tom Libelt: Lifestyle Entrepreneur, Small Business Consultant & SEO Expert, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The Smart Brand Marketing Podcast: Online Business | Content Marketing | SEO | Sales | Lifestyle Design
Episode: SBM 129: Email Copywriting Best Practices from a 100 Top Marketers with Brandon Olson
Pub date: 2019-03-22

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/7e9d4c4b1207466e946a366e583b10e1/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Tom Libelt: Lifestyle Entrepreneur, Small Business Consultant & SEO Expert, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:13:03 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/7e9d4c4b1207466e946a366e583b10e1/</guid>
            
            <author>Tom Libelt: Lifestyle Entrepreneur, Small Business Consultant &amp; SEO Expert</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/7e9d4c4b1207466e946a366e583b10e1.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The Smart Brand Marketing Podcast: Online Business | Content Marketing | SEO | Sales | Lifestyle Design</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:24:10</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Tom Libelt: Lifestyle Entrepreneur, Small Business Consultant &amp; SEO Expert</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-smart-brand-marketing-podcast-online-r8Pio1L4WcG--0reTmja6LS.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>TCC Podcast #107: the Instagram-ification of copywriting with Joel Klettke</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/e881407943414050910d806de5fdb205</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-rob-marsh-RKsN5kV_e-Q/">The Copywriter Club Podcast</a> (LS 49 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/e881407943414050910d806de5fdb205/">TCC Podcast #107: the Instagram-ification of copywriting with Joel Klettke</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-09-11<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/e881407943414050910d806de5fdb205/&notes=TCC Podcast #107: the Instagram-ification of copywriting with Joel Klettke">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-kira-hug-and-Ebh6cYFTX5g-RKsN5kV_e-Q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Copywriter Joel Klettke shares his thoughts with Kira and Rob about how copywriters like to show off only the best parts of their business and how that affects other writers struggling to make things work. It’s a great discussion, but we covered a lot more than that. Here’s a look at what you'll hear in this 107th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast:

•  what he’s doing and how his business (and life) has changed in the past year
•  how audits and research have impacted his business
•  what Joel does in an audit and how he prices them for his clients
•  how he sells the audit and then hands it off to the client or another writer
•  why he’s taking on fewer projects and the season of “no”
•  the instagram-ification of some copywriter’s businesses—and why it hurts
•  why we end up chasing the wrong goals (and maybe what to do instead)
•  what to do if you aren’t performing as well as you think you should
•  what is “enough”
•  a few ideas for building confidence and the impact on your business
•  the biggest mistakes copywriters make that ruin your conversion rates
•  his advice to new dads and why you might need “guilt cancelling headphones”

To get the low-down on how Joel’s business has changed since the first time we talked to him more than a year ago, click the play button below. Or if you’re the reading type (and lots of copywriters are) scroll down for a full transcript. And you should be able to find it on your favorite podcast app as well.



 
The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:
Joel’s first interview
Joanna Wiebe
Case Study Buddy
Chantelle Zakarisian
Val Geisler
Laura Belgray
Joels’ Conversion Killers Presentation
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
Intro: Content (for now)
Outro: Gravity

 
Full Transcript:
Rob:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast.

Kira:   You're invited to join a club for Episode 107 as we chat for a second time with freelance copywriter and case study specialist Joel Klettke about what he's accomplished in the year since we last talked. What it really takes to grown and run a six figure business, balancing copywriting with building a second business and being a new dad, and the biggest conversion killing mistakes copywriters make.

Kira:   Welcome Joel.

Rob:   Hey Joel.

Joel:   Hey guys, thanks so much for having me.

Kira:   Yeah it's great to have you back. All right, so let's kick this off Joel with what you've been working on over the last year. What's changed for you? We know quite a bit has changed for you, but what's changed since the last time that we had you on the show?

Joel:   I kind of started off the year, I made the promise to myself I said, ‘I'm going to step back from the copy projects, and I'm going to press into the case study business, and focus on growing that.’ And so, that was kind of my mental goal. I thought, ‘Yeah I need to see what I've got in that.’ And that went well for all of like 10 minutes, and then projects cross your desk, and it's difficult to say no. But, I have kind of stepped back a little bit from writing. I'm taking on fewer but bigger projects now, which was a big goal of mine. But I think obviously the most significant change is now I'm a dad, so I've got a little guy in the house, and learning to work, and live, and adjust my sleep schedules and life in general around this little person, which is pretty interesting.

And then the other side of it on a totally different side of things, I looked up kind of midway through the year and realized outside of case studies, and outside of my writing projects I've actually made more money, and had more work on the audits and review side of things, which was a surprise even to me, because it wasn't something I really willfully thought, ‘You know I'm really going to spin this up and focus a ton on these audits and reviews.’ It just sort of started snowballing. And so, now I'm in a place where big life changes, potential shifts in the way I spend my time in my work, so quite a lot going on. Quite a lot to kind of grapple with, and a lot to be excited about too.

Rob:   Just for context Joel, do you mind talking a little bit about what the auditing and those services that you're doing that you weren't necessarily expecting to be a big contribute to your business. Tell us about those kind of projects, what you do, how they come to you and what you are helping clients accomplish.

Joel:   Yeah, definitely. So, I've always been a proponent of to be good in this business, especially when it comes to the conversion side of copywriting, you can't just be a good writer. It's not enough to just be good with words, or to be a wordsmith and make things sound nice, you have to be really good at the research part. You have to care about getting it right, and doing the research, and analyzing data both qualitative and quantitative. And so, part of my process for a long time with projects has been this research phase where we do things like look at heat maps, and recorded user sessions. We survey their customers. We interview customers. We talk to their internal team. We talk to their chat logs. And so, for the longest time that was always just phase one of bigger projects.

And then as I started kind of venturing into an area where now there's kind of a pretty significant contingent of businesses, you know small businesses, and even some smaller midsize businesses that can't necessarily afford to have me on a full project, but there's projects I was interested in, wanting to engage on. And so, I came to them and said, ‘Well, instead of having me put together all your pages, and do the writing, and the wire framing, I could give you the research portion, analyze what you've got, make recommendations for what I would change, and you can take that and do with it what you will.’ And so, these audits and reviews, what I'm doing now yes I'm assessing the copy and the messaging, but it's more than that. I'm looking at identifying, okay where are obvious obstacles to conversion based on the way people interact with your site and your information? How do we fix those? And then handing them kind of a blueprint of next steps for what to do with that, and how to action that.

So, it's become even though it's still phase one of projects, it's now become kind of a stand-alone thing that I'm able to offer at different tiers and levels. Everything from quick little video reviews to these full blown 5,000 plus word reports. But I'm really enjoying it, and I'm loving kind of the forensic, detective side of looking at a site and trying to figure out what's wrong, and how to fix it both with words and sometimes UX, and other elements too.

Rob:   You mentioned the tiers, I'm curious how you price that for your clients.

Joel:   Yeah, so I wanted to have a tier that was really accessible. I wanted to be able to say, I have five spots open for audits this month. And I wanted to be able to sell that out quickly. And so, kind of on the bottom end, kind of right now it's a video review where I send them a brief, they fill it out as best they can with the details they have. We go in knowing, nobody's kidding themselves, we're not pretending this is a data driven audit I'm doing, but they're counting on my experience and my ability to kind of sniff out big obvious problems, that's the goal with these ones. So for that, I started billing really low, so I was first charging kind of like $250 for those. And I've kind of been testing the ceiling on that. I know now that I can close those at around $900.

So everything from that, which is still within reach for a lot of businesses, to some of theses deep dive audits where they're multi-week affairs, we're talking to a lot of people, we're doing a lot of things, those can be anywhere from on the lower end $5,000 to $7,500 and up, just depending on how much we're analyzing what the end deliverable is. So, it kind of runs the gamete what companies are interested in, but especially that bottom tier has been really popular because it's a way for companies just to get a sense of what they can do next and action on it.

Kira:   Can you talk through the deep dive audit and what that looks like in more detail?

Joel:   Yeah. So, the things that I just talked about with regard to qualitative and quantitative when it comes to a deep dive audit, the difference when you look at a video review there's just the brief, and sometimes I throw in a bit of ... I might look at their Google search console for kicks, and that's it. And it takes me maybe an hour or two in the morning, I'm done, I get on with my day. With a deep dive audit usually they're larger sites, they're more nuanced problems, we look at more pages, we look at more specifically quantitative data, so those types of companies usually are measuring with varying degrees of accuracy what's actually happening on the site. So, the deep dive audit I just bring in more of those data points. So on the bottom end it's just a brief and maybe one other thing. On the other side of things that's where it's that full surveys, and interviews, and 100 plus recorded sessions, and Google analytics, and if they have VWO we're looking at that. And maybe we're running a survey and I'm analyzing 100, 200 responses.

The other piece that changes is the deliverable too. So, if I don't have to write up a deliverable that obviously saves me a ton of time. An interesting thing I've kind of found is people tend to value ... I could send somebody a deliverable that would take them an hour to sit down and read, or literally two hours of video and people will still prefer to just watch the videos. So,<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Rob Marsh, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-rob-marsh-RKsN5kV_e-Q/">The Copywriter Club Podcast</a> (LS 49 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/e881407943414050910d806de5fdb205/">TCC Podcast #107: the Instagram-ification of copywriting with Joel Klettke</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-09-11<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/e881407943414050910d806de5fdb205/&notes=TCC Podcast #107: the Instagram-ification of copywriting with Joel Klettke">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-kira-hug-and-Ebh6cYFTX5g-RKsN5kV_e-Q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Copywriter Joel Klettke shares his thoughts with Kira and Rob about how copywriters like to show off only the best parts of their business and how that affects other writers struggling to make things work. It’s a great discussion, but we covered a lot more than that. Here’s a look at what you'll hear in this 107th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast:

•  what he’s doing and how his business (and life) has changed in the past year
•  how audits and research have impacted his business
•  what Joel does in an audit and how he prices them for his clients
•  how he sells the audit and then hands it off to the client or another writer
•  why he’s taking on fewer projects and the season of “no”
•  the instagram-ification of some copywriter’s businesses—and why it hurts
•  why we end up chasing the wrong goals (and maybe what to do instead)
•  what to do if you aren’t performing as well as you think you should
•  what is “enough”
•  a few ideas for building confidence and the impact on your business
•  the biggest mistakes copywriters make that ruin your conversion rates
•  his advice to new dads and why you might need “guilt cancelling headphones”

To get the low-down on how Joel’s business has changed since the first time we talked to him more than a year ago, click the play button below. Or if you’re the reading type (and lots of copywriters are) scroll down for a full transcript. And you should be able to find it on your favorite podcast app as well.



 
The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:
Joel’s first interview
Joanna Wiebe
Case Study Buddy
Chantelle Zakarisian
Val Geisler
Laura Belgray
Joels’ Conversion Killers Presentation
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
Intro: Content (for now)
Outro: Gravity

 
Full Transcript:
Rob:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast.

Kira:   You're invited to join a club for Episode 107 as we chat for a second time with freelance copywriter and case study specialist Joel Klettke about what he's accomplished in the year since we last talked. What it really takes to grown and run a six figure business, balancing copywriting with building a second business and being a new dad, and the biggest conversion killing mistakes copywriters make.

Kira:   Welcome Joel.

Rob:   Hey Joel.

Joel:   Hey guys, thanks so much for having me.

Kira:   Yeah it's great to have you back. All right, so let's kick this off Joel with what you've been working on over the last year. What's changed for you? We know quite a bit has changed for you, but what's changed since the last time that we had you on the show?

Joel:   I kind of started off the year, I made the promise to myself I said, ‘I'm going to step back from the copy projects, and I'm going to press into the case study business, and focus on growing that.’ And so, that was kind of my mental goal. I thought, ‘Yeah I need to see what I've got in that.’ And that went well for all of like 10 minutes, and then projects cross your desk, and it's difficult to say no. But, I have kind of stepped back a little bit from writing. I'm taking on fewer but bigger projects now, which was a big goal of mine. But I think obviously the most significant change is now I'm a dad, so I've got a little guy in the house, and learning to work, and live, and adjust my sleep schedules and life in general around this little person, which is pretty interesting.

And then the other side of it on a totally different side of things, I looked up kind of midway through the year and realized outside of case studies, and outside of my writing projects I've actually made more money, and had more work on the audits and review side of things, which was a surprise even to me, because it wasn't something I really willfully thought, ‘You know I'm really going to spin this up and focus a ton on these audits and reviews.’ It just sort of started snowballing. And so, now I'm in a place where big life changes, potential shifts in the way I spend my time in my work, so quite a lot going on. Quite a lot to kind of grapple with, and a lot to be excited about too.

Rob:   Just for context Joel, do you mind talking a little bit about what the auditing and those services that you're doing that you weren't necessarily expecting to be a big contribute to your business. Tell us about those kind of projects, what you do, how they come to you and what you are helping clients accomplish.

Joel:   Yeah, definitely. So, I've always been a proponent of to be good in this business, especially when it comes to the conversion side of copywriting, you can't just be a good writer. It's not enough to just be good with words, or to be a wordsmith and make things sound nice, you have to be really good at the research part. You have to care about getting it right, and doing the research, and analyzing data both qualitative and quantitative. And so, part of my process for a long time with projects has been this research phase where we do things like look at heat maps, and recorded user sessions. We survey their customers. We interview customers. We talk to their internal team. We talk to their chat logs. And so, for the longest time that was always just phase one of bigger projects.

And then as I started kind of venturing into an area where now there's kind of a pretty significant contingent of businesses, you know small businesses, and even some smaller midsize businesses that can't necessarily afford to have me on a full project, but there's projects I was interested in, wanting to engage on. And so, I came to them and said, ‘Well, instead of having me put together all your pages, and do the writing, and the wire framing, I could give you the research portion, analyze what you've got, make recommendations for what I would change, and you can take that and do with it what you will.’ And so, these audits and reviews, what I'm doing now yes I'm assessing the copy and the messaging, but it's more than that. I'm looking at identifying, okay where are obvious obstacles to conversion based on the way people interact with your site and your information? How do we fix those? And then handing them kind of a blueprint of next steps for what to do with that, and how to action that.

So, it's become even though it's still phase one of projects, it's now become kind of a stand-alone thing that I'm able to offer at different tiers and levels. Everything from quick little video reviews to these full blown 5,000 plus word reports. But I'm really enjoying it, and I'm loving kind of the forensic, detective side of looking at a site and trying to figure out what's wrong, and how to fix it both with words and sometimes UX, and other elements too.

Rob:   You mentioned the tiers, I'm curious how you price that for your clients.

Joel:   Yeah, so I wanted to have a tier that was really accessible. I wanted to be able to say, I have five spots open for audits this month. And I wanted to be able to sell that out quickly. And so, kind of on the bottom end, kind of right now it's a video review where I send them a brief, they fill it out as best they can with the details they have. We go in knowing, nobody's kidding themselves, we're not pretending this is a data driven audit I'm doing, but they're counting on my experience and my ability to kind of sniff out big obvious problems, that's the goal with these ones. So for that, I started billing really low, so I was first charging kind of like $250 for those. And I've kind of been testing the ceiling on that. I know now that I can close those at around $900.

So everything from that, which is still within reach for a lot of businesses, to some of theses deep dive audits where they're multi-week affairs, we're talking to a lot of people, we're doing a lot of things, those can be anywhere from on the lower end $5,000 to $7,500 and up, just depending on how much we're analyzing what the end deliverable is. So, it kind of runs the gamete what companies are interested in, but especially that bottom tier has been really popular because it's a way for companies just to get a sense of what they can do next and action on it.

Kira:   Can you talk through the deep dive audit and what that looks like in more detail?

Joel:   Yeah. So, the things that I just talked about with regard to qualitative and quantitative when it comes to a deep dive audit, the difference when you look at a video review there's just the brief, and sometimes I throw in a bit of ... I might look at their Google search console for kicks, and that's it. And it takes me maybe an hour or two in the morning, I'm done, I get on with my day. With a deep dive audit usually they're larger sites, they're more nuanced problems, we look at more pages, we look at more specifically quantitative data, so those types of companies usually are measuring with varying degrees of accuracy what's actually happening on the site. So, the deep dive audit I just bring in more of those data points. So on the bottom end it's just a brief and maybe one other thing. On the other side of things that's where it's that full surveys, and interviews, and 100 plus recorded sessions, and Google analytics, and if they have VWO we're looking at that. And maybe we're running a survey and I'm analyzing 100, 200 responses.

The other piece that changes is the deliverable too. So, if I don't have to write up a deliverable that obviously saves me a ton of time. An interesting thing I've kind of found is people tend to value ... I could send somebody a deliverable that would take them an hour to sit down and read, or literally two hours of video and people will still prefer to just watch the videos. So,<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Rob Marsh, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The Copywriter Club Podcast
Episode: TCC Podcast #107: the Instagram-ification of copywriting with Joel Klettke
Pub date: 2018-09-11

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/e881407943414050910d806de5fdb205/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Rob Marsh, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:12:43 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/e881407943414050910d806de5fdb205/</guid>
            
            <author>Rob Marsh</author>



            
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            <itunes:subtitle>The Copywriter Club Podcast</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:48:29</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Rob Marsh</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-kira-hug-and-SQR_PVOpbiX-RKsN5kV_e-Q.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>Using Content to Systematically Move Prospects Toward a Purchase</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/48ba590d55ac49cea889342754092e10</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-Fvu8iEyYf4q/">The HeyCreator Show</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/48ba590d55ac49cea889342754092e10/">Using Content to Systematically Move Prospects Toward a Purchase</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-02-25<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/48ba590d55ac49cea889342754092e10/&notes=Using Content to Systematically Move Prospects Toward a Purchase">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-z3VoNdj16cx-Fvu8iEyYf4q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Prospects need to be at the right stage of awareness before they can move forward with a purchase. And content marketing is a superb way to get them there. Today, I touch on some specific ways that content marketing can pave the way for excellent conversion. In this 18-minute episode, I talk about: How strategic... Listen to episode<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-Fvu8iEyYf4q/">The HeyCreator Show</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/48ba590d55ac49cea889342754092e10/">Using Content to Systematically Move Prospects Toward a Purchase</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-02-25<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/48ba590d55ac49cea889342754092e10/&notes=Using Content to Systematically Move Prospects Toward a Purchase">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-z3VoNdj16cx-Fvu8iEyYf4q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Prospects need to be at the right stage of awareness before they can move forward with a purchase. And content marketing is a superb way to get them there. Today, I touch on some specific ways that content marketing can pave the way for excellent conversion. In this 18-minute episode, I talk about: How strategic... Listen to episode<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The HeyCreator Show
Episode: Using Content to Systematically Move Prospects Toward a Purchase
Pub date: 2019-02-25

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/48ba590d55ac49cea889342754092e10/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:12:33 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/48ba590d55ac49cea889342754092e10/</guid>
            
            <author>HeyCreator</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/48ba590d55ac49cea889342754092e10.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The HeyCreator Show</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:18:22</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>HeyCreator</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-wRq1L5pVBO4-Fvu8iEyYf4q.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>7 Lessons Learned at Copywriting Academy Live</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/8aa5fd949f1c41adbf35a3f9b4ba9076</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/ray-edwards-show-ray-edwards-o6gsv_xTF0u/">Ray Edwards Show</a> (LS 51 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/8aa5fd949f1c41adbf35a3f9b4ba9076/">7 Lessons Learned at Copywriting Academy Live</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2016-08-15<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/8aa5fd949f1c41adbf35a3f9b4ba9076/&notes=7 Lessons Learned at Copywriting Academy Live">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/ray-edwards-show-ray-edwards-A-lR6dLyeou-o6gsv_xTF0u.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><hr /> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">On today&apos;s show, we will take a one week break from our Five Phases Series and talk about the 7 lessons we learned at Copywriting Academy Live!</span></p> <p class="p1"></p> <div class="smart-track-player-container stp-color-000000-EEEEEE spp-stp-desktop"></div> <p><a href="http://traffic.libsyn.com/rayedwards/REP245.mp3" target="_blank">Click here to download or listen to this episode now.</a></p> <p><span id="more-11763"></span></p> <h2>Spiritual Foundations</h2> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">“</span>Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.<span class="s1">” (</span>Ephesians 5:1-2<span class="s1">)</span></p> <h2 class="p1"><span style="line-height: 1.5;">Tip Of The Week</span></h2> <p><a href="http://literatureandlatte.com/scrivener_ios.php" target="_blank">Scrivener for iOS</a></p> <h2 class="p1"><span style="line-height: 1.5;">Feature Segment: 7 Lessons Learned at Copywriting Academy Live</span></h2> <ol> <li>Live events are expensive, risky, and time-consuming … but worth it.</li> <li>Teamwork makes the dream work.</li> <li>No plan survives contact with reality.</li> <li>Adapting to the needs of your customers and clients is paramount.</li> <li>Don’t pretend you have everything figured out – everybody else knows that’s not true.</li> <li>Trust your team, your audience, your gut… and God.</li> <li>Nothing builds community like bread, love, and laughter</li> </ol> <h2 class="p1">How To Help</h2> <p><a href="http://rayedwardspodcast.com">Subscribe to the show through iTunes</a> and give us a rating and review. Make sure you put your real name and website in the text of the review itself. We will mention you on this show.</p> <p>We are also on Stitcher.com, so if you prefer Stitcher, please subscribe there.</p> <h2>Get The Transcript</h2> <p><a href="https://rayedwards.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Ray-Edwards-Show-Transcript-245.pdf" target="_blank">Right-Click and “Save As” to Get the PDF Transcript.</a></p> <p class="Default">Have you asked and answered all the questions in Phase 1 for your business?</p> <p class="p1"></p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Ray Edwards, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/ray-edwards-show-ray-edwards-o6gsv_xTF0u/">Ray Edwards Show</a> (LS 51 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/8aa5fd949f1c41adbf35a3f9b4ba9076/">7 Lessons Learned at Copywriting Academy Live</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2016-08-15<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/8aa5fd949f1c41adbf35a3f9b4ba9076/&notes=7 Lessons Learned at Copywriting Academy Live">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/ray-edwards-show-ray-edwards-A-lR6dLyeou-o6gsv_xTF0u.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><hr /> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">On today&apos;s show, we will take a one week break from our Five Phases Series and talk about the 7 lessons we learned at Copywriting Academy Live!</span></p> <p class="p1"></p> <div class="smart-track-player-container stp-color-000000-EEEEEE spp-stp-desktop"></div> <p><a href="http://traffic.libsyn.com/rayedwards/REP245.mp3" target="_blank">Click here to download or listen to this episode now.</a></p> <p><span id="more-11763"></span></p> <h2>Spiritual Foundations</h2> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">“</span>Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.<span class="s1">” (</span>Ephesians 5:1-2<span class="s1">)</span></p> <h2 class="p1"><span style="line-height: 1.5;">Tip Of The Week</span></h2> <p><a href="http://literatureandlatte.com/scrivener_ios.php" target="_blank">Scrivener for iOS</a></p> <h2 class="p1"><span style="line-height: 1.5;">Feature Segment: 7 Lessons Learned at Copywriting Academy Live</span></h2> <ol> <li>Live events are expensive, risky, and time-consuming … but worth it.</li> <li>Teamwork makes the dream work.</li> <li>No plan survives contact with reality.</li> <li>Adapting to the needs of your customers and clients is paramount.</li> <li>Don’t pretend you have everything figured out – everybody else knows that’s not true.</li> <li>Trust your team, your audience, your gut… and God.</li> <li>Nothing builds community like bread, love, and laughter</li> </ol> <h2 class="p1">How To Help</h2> <p><a href="http://rayedwardspodcast.com">Subscribe to the show through iTunes</a> and give us a rating and review. Make sure you put your real name and website in the text of the review itself. We will mention you on this show.</p> <p>We are also on Stitcher.com, so if you prefer Stitcher, please subscribe there.</p> <h2>Get The Transcript</h2> <p><a href="https://rayedwards.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Ray-Edwards-Show-Transcript-245.pdf" target="_blank">Right-Click and “Save As” to Get the PDF Transcript.</a></p> <p class="Default">Have you asked and answered all the questions in Phase 1 for your business?</p> <p class="p1"></p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Ray Edwards, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: Ray Edwards Show
Episode: 7 Lessons Learned at Copywriting Academy Live
Pub date: 2016-08-15

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/8aa5fd949f1c41adbf35a3f9b4ba9076/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Ray Edwards, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:12:16 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/8aa5fd949f1c41adbf35a3f9b4ba9076/</guid>
            
            <author>Ray Edwards</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/8aa5fd949f1c41adbf35a3f9b4ba9076.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>Ray Edwards Show</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:30:20</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Ray Edwards</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/ray-edwards-show-ray-edwards-qwUzTDmVdyH-o6gsv_xTF0u.1400x1400.jpg" />
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        <item>
            <title>How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 3: Polishing and Promotion</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/37f41826bc86486f8761ef0d560e9636</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-Fvu8iEyYf4q/">The HeyCreator Show</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/37f41826bc86486f8761ef0d560e9636/">How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 3: Polishing and Promotion</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-07-08<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/37f41826bc86486f8761ef0d560e9636/&notes=How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 3: Polishing and Promotion">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-z3VoNdj16cx-Fvu8iEyYf4q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Part three of our series: How to polish and promote an epic blog post or other piece of remarkable content. You’ve got your first draft of a solid, dare we say “epic” piece of content. Now it’s time to polish it to perfection, and promote it for the widest possible audience. That’s what I cover... Listen to episode<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-Fvu8iEyYf4q/">The HeyCreator Show</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/37f41826bc86486f8761ef0d560e9636/">How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 3: Polishing and Promotion</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-07-08<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/37f41826bc86486f8761ef0d560e9636/&notes=How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 3: Polishing and Promotion">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-z3VoNdj16cx-Fvu8iEyYf4q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Part three of our series: How to polish and promote an epic blog post or other piece of remarkable content. You’ve got your first draft of a solid, dare we say “epic” piece of content. Now it’s time to polish it to perfection, and promote it for the widest possible audience. That’s what I cover... Listen to episode<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The HeyCreator Show
Episode: How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 3: Polishing and Promotion
Pub date: 2019-07-08

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/37f41826bc86486f8761ef0d560e9636/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:11:39 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/37f41826bc86486f8761ef0d560e9636/</guid>
            
            <author>HeyCreator</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/37f41826bc86486f8761ef0d560e9636.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The HeyCreator Show</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:24:36</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>HeyCreator</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-wRq1L5pVBO4-Fvu8iEyYf4q.1400x1400.jpg" />
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        <item>
            <title>How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 2: Getting It Written</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/ca0167f11d054cfcabe3a238bf04d6c3</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-Fvu8iEyYf4q/">The HeyCreator Show</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/ca0167f11d054cfcabe3a238bf04d6c3/">How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 2: Getting It Written</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-07-01<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/ca0167f11d054cfcabe3a238bf04d6c3/&notes=How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 2: Getting It Written">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-z3VoNdj16cx-Fvu8iEyYf4q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Part two of our series: How to write an epic blog post or other piece of remarkable content. OK, you’ve assembled a pile of research and done some careful thinking, and now it’s time to write. Now what? You may have heard the advice to “tell them what you’re going to say, then say it,... Listen to episode<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-Fvu8iEyYf4q/">The HeyCreator Show</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/ca0167f11d054cfcabe3a238bf04d6c3/">How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 2: Getting It Written</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-07-01<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/ca0167f11d054cfcabe3a238bf04d6c3/&notes=How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 2: Getting It Written">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-z3VoNdj16cx-Fvu8iEyYf4q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>Part two of our series: How to write an epic blog post or other piece of remarkable content. OK, you’ve assembled a pile of research and done some careful thinking, and now it’s time to write. Now what? You may have heard the advice to “tell them what you’re going to say, then say it,... Listen to episode<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The HeyCreator Show
Episode: How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 2: Getting It Written
Pub date: 2019-07-01

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/ca0167f11d054cfcabe3a238bf04d6c3/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:11:30 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/ca0167f11d054cfcabe3a238bf04d6c3/</guid>
            
            <author>HeyCreator</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/ca0167f11d054cfcabe3a238bf04d6c3.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The HeyCreator Show</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:27:14</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>HeyCreator</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-wRq1L5pVBO4-Fvu8iEyYf4q.1400x1400.jpg" />
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        <item>
            <title>How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 1: Thinking and Research</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/c788e3cb53594f6e944966e75fe29a12</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-Fvu8iEyYf4q/">The HeyCreator Show</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/c788e3cb53594f6e944966e75fe29a12/">How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 1: Thinking and Research</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-06-24<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/c788e3cb53594f6e944966e75fe29a12/&notes=How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 1: Thinking and Research">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-z3VoNdj16cx-Fvu8iEyYf4q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>New series! Part one: How to prepare to write an epic blog post or other piece of remarkable content. What’s the best antidote to the glut of content? Better content. Much better content. This episode is the start of a three-part series on how to write a genuinely remarkable piece of content. In this 18-minute... Listen to episode<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-Fvu8iEyYf4q/">The HeyCreator Show</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/c788e3cb53594f6e944966e75fe29a12/">How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 1: Thinking and Research</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-06-24<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/c788e3cb53594f6e944966e75fe29a12/&notes=How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 1: Thinking and Research">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-z3VoNdj16cx-Fvu8iEyYf4q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>New series! Part one: How to prepare to write an epic blog post or other piece of remarkable content. What’s the best antidote to the glut of content? Better content. Much better content. This episode is the start of a three-part series on how to write a genuinely remarkable piece of content. In this 18-minute... Listen to episode<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The HeyCreator Show
Episode: How to Write an Epic Blog Post, Part 1: Thinking and Research
Pub date: 2019-06-24

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/c788e3cb53594f6e944966e75fe29a12/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from HeyCreator, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:11:21 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/c788e3cb53594f6e944966e75fe29a12/</guid>
            
            <author>HeyCreator</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/c788e3cb53594f6e944966e75fe29a12.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The HeyCreator Show</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:17:32</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>HeyCreator</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-heycreator-show-heycreator-wRq1L5pVBO4-Fvu8iEyYf4q.1400x1400.jpg" />
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            <title>#109: My Checklist for Getting Your B2B Copywriting Business Off the Ground Successfully</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/74cc454099814136a2167ace5ab7a703</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/high-income-business-writing-podcast-ed-mLydzQEUeDN/">High-Income Business Writing Podcast</a> (LS 51 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/74cc454099814136a2167ace5ab7a703/">#109: My Checklist for Getting Your B2B Copywriting Business Off the Ground Successfully</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2016-08-19<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/74cc454099814136a2167ace5ab7a703/&notes=#109: My Checklist for Getting Your B2B Copywriting Business Off the Ground Successfully">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/high-income-business-writing-podcast-ed-vowFeu2bAQL-mLydzQEUeDN.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>This is the most common question I get from new freelance writers and copywriters: "Where do I start, Ed?" In today's podcast episode, I give you my detailed answer to that question. I reveal my big-picture checklist for getting your business off the ground faster and more safely. If you're struggling to get your B2B / commercial writing business off the ground, this episode is for you.<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Ed Gandia, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/high-income-business-writing-podcast-ed-mLydzQEUeDN/">High-Income Business Writing Podcast</a> (LS 51 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/74cc454099814136a2167ace5ab7a703/">#109: My Checklist for Getting Your B2B Copywriting Business Off the Ground Successfully</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2016-08-19<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/74cc454099814136a2167ace5ab7a703/&notes=#109: My Checklist for Getting Your B2B Copywriting Business Off the Ground Successfully">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/high-income-business-writing-podcast-ed-vowFeu2bAQL-mLydzQEUeDN.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>This is the most common question I get from new freelance writers and copywriters: "Where do I start, Ed?" In today's podcast episode, I give you my detailed answer to that question. I reveal my big-picture checklist for getting your business off the ground faster and more safely. If you're struggling to get your B2B / commercial writing business off the ground, this episode is for you.<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Ed Gandia, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: High-Income Business Writing Podcast
Episode: #109: My Checklist for Getting Your B2B Copywriting Business Off the Ground Successfully
Pub date: 2016-08-19

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/74cc454099814136a2167ace5ab7a703/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Ed Gandia, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:11:07 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/74cc454099814136a2167ace5ab7a703/</guid>
            
            <author>Ed Gandia</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/74cc454099814136a2167ace5ab7a703.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>High-Income Business Writing Podcast</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:37:04</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Ed Gandia</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/high-income-business-writing-podcast-ed-7nNa40y6RIJ-mLydzQEUeDN.1400x1400.jpg" />
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        <item>
            <title>TCC Podcast #99: Copywriting Mastery with Jason Rutkowski</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/db8a3e8c2f3d44f4b0c84af63d5d69ea</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-rob-marsh-RKsN5kV_e-Q/">The Copywriter Club Podcast</a> (LS 49 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/db8a3e8c2f3d44f4b0c84af63d5d69ea/">TCC Podcast #99: Copywriting Mastery with Jason Rutkowski</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-07-03<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/db8a3e8c2f3d44f4b0c84af63d5d69ea/&notes=TCC Podcast #99: Copywriting Mastery with Jason Rutkowski">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-kira-hug-and-Ebh6cYFTX5g-RKsN5kV_e-Q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>This is the last episode of the podcast before we hit triple digits—and it’s a good one. Health copywriter Jason Rutkowski joins us for the 99th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast and we covered a lot of ground, from Jason’s secrets for connecting with both mentors and clients to a look inside his copy mastery process (he sent us a screen capture of his file system so you can see what he’s talking about during the podcast). Here’s a look at what we covered:

•  how Jason failed his way to copywriting as a career
•  finding his first few clients and figured out his niche
•  the “one thing” he tried that resulting in connecting with good clients
•  the strategy Jason followed to get A-list copywriters to share their stories with him
•  the single most important thing you can do at live marketing events
•  what it’s like to be “cubbed” by an A-list copywriter
•  why you absolutely need to reverse engineer great copy to get better
•  the difference between a copywriter and a master copywriter
•  the foundational copywriting reference everyone should study
•  Jason’s research process (and how he reverse engineers A-list research)
•  how to get started writing in the health industry
•  the gmail hack for studying the market you want to write for
•  the reason A-list copywriters work with copywriters (an opportunity?)

If you’re interested in not just being a copywriter, but becoming a great copywriter, you’re going to want get this one. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. And of course, you can find it on iTunes, Stitcher or in your favorite podcast app.



 
The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:
Clayton Makepeace
Parris Lampropolous
Marcella Allison
Paul Martinez
John Carlton
Gary Halbert
Jim Rutz
Carline Cole
David Deutsch
AWAI
Barnaby Kalan
The Single Best Way to Get Clients
Parris’ book list
On Writing Well by William Zinsser
The Brilliance Breakthrough by Eugene Schwartz
Brian Kurtz
New Market Health
Health Sense Media
Dr. Gundry
Advanced Bionutritionals
Nature City
Patriot Health Alliance
The Agora
JasonRutkowski.com
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
Intro: Content (for now)
Outro: Gravity
Full Transcript:
Rob:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast.

Kira:   You're invited to join the club for Episode 99 as we chat with freelance copywriter Jason Rutkowski about writing in the health and wellness niche, investing in himself and his expertise, his business and writing processes, and what it took to gain traction as a copywriter when he was just starting out.

Rob:   Hey Jason.

Kira:   Welcome Jason.

Jason:    Hey Kira, hey Rob.

Kira:   How's it going? Glad you're here.

Jason:    Oh no, I'm excited. I haven't done one of these in a while, so I was excited to do it with you.

Rob:   Definitely took a little time to get our schedules aligned. We've been trying to make this happen for a little while, because we know a little bit about you and where you write and we think it'll be a great conversation, so we're glad to have you here.

Jason:     Yeah, definitely.

Kira:   All right, so let's kick this off. Jason, how did you end up as a copywriter?

Jason:     Okay, I'll give you the quick story about this. I was 19. I just finished my freshman year of college. I got an internship at a normal 9-to-5 job. And I realized I hated it. I was like, oh man. I saw all these people who worked in an office, you know, 30, 40 years; I'm like, is this really going to be my life?

And also at the same exact time, I was on the internet one day and I found an internet marketing forum. And I was like, what's an internet marketing forum? I don't know. So I go on it and I see all these guys, like ‘Yeah I just made 200 grand this year, 500 grand this year. I work from home; I'm sitting at my desk all day.’ I'm like what? How is that even possible?

So I started getting really into it. And then I learned about traffic drivers and marketing and product creation and all these things. And I was really confused. And I was like 19, 20 years old. So I heard about copywriting, but I didn't decide to be a freelance copywriter right away. I was like, you know what I'm going to do, I'm going to create my own products; I'm going to do Google Adwords; and I'm going to drive traffic. I'm going to do the whole thing, like from start to finish.

And I horribly failed. You know, I was going to school full-time, and then I was doing this part-time, and I was just failing and failing. And then after a couple of years of that, I decided, okay this isn't working. I'm just going to do copywriting because I think this is what I like most. I don't like doing all this other technical stuff, marketing stuff. I'm just going to do copywriting.

So, from then on out, I just picked a niche. I was like I'll just write in health. And from then on out I just started growing a business.

Rob:   So, I'm interested in what some of those failures looked like. What were the products that you were creating and why were they failing?

Jason:    Oh. I mean, the why is a lot of reasons. The products I was creating, I created kind of an ... E-books were a big thing back then. Back then you could just write an e-book and like sell it and people would buy it. So I created one for anxiety, which I actually went through a lot in the beginning of my life. And I also created a few for some, like headaches solutions and kind of like different health things.

And I put, I don't know, these 150, 200-page books together with just some random info, that I thought was good, but then the whole process of, you know I was trying to organic SEO, trying to target the right keyword. I was in college so I had very little money to actually spend on driving traffic, paid traffic. And I was just doing a lot of things wrong.

It was a lot of small marketing things that you don't know, don't you know it? Like how to do the SEO right, how to do the traffic right. How to do the delivery right. How to build your list. Like, doing a lot of bad stuff with building my list. A lot of mistakes; it was just like, I was just some teenage kid and I didn't know what I was doing.

But I did learn a lot, and I also learned through the process that what I really liked doing the most was the copywriting. So I just decided to give up the whole build my own business thing and do the copywriting thing instead.

Rob:   So what did that look like in the first stages? How did you connect with your first client, and why did you choose the niche that you chose?

Jason:   Oh, back then that was me doing my own stuff. In terms of the freelance copywriting, I started on the freelance websites, which I don't know if it is a good way to do it anymore. But, you know, it was like these cheap little jobs on like Elance and Guru and ... Like, I don't know if that stuff was even worth it. I mean, I guess it paid me some money, and it gave me some actual samples I could send to people. But I didn't really get any good long term clients out of that.

I didn't start getting good long term clients until I decided, and it took me way too long to figure this out, but to actually go to live events, and like talk with people. And actually like start-

Kira:   Wait, what's that? Talking to people? What's that?

Jason:    No, I know. I literally spent like my first three years of copywriting trying to do everything from my room. Like cold calling, Edesk, Olance, like cheap little, I mean, I don't know, I was making still a little money from it. I had like a 9-to-5 office job to support myself, and then I would come home and do this. I wasn't even close to making enough money to support myself.

So I decided, okay the only way this is going to work is if I start going to live events. So I'm like, okay, what live events should I go to? Which ones are good? You know, what's some high quality live events I could go to?

And the first one I ever went to was a Clayton Makepeace, like $5,000 seminar. And I did not have $5,000 by the way. But I did have good credit, so I put it on my credit card. And I actually did, actually. One thing I always thank my mom for is she got me a credit card at 18 and she taught me how to use it. And by the time I was in like, my early to mid-20s I had a credit card with like a $25,000 limit on it.

Kira:   What? That's dangerous.

Jason:           It was completely paid. I know, but I had no debt. Like, it was unused. So I decided to be a little risky and go to this Clayton Makepeace seminar, which ended up being the absolute best decision of my life because I met my mentor Parris Lampropoulos. I met Marcella Allison and I meet Paul Martinez, all at the same conference. We are all very, very good friends to this day.

And then, after that, it was a matter of ... I mean, I don't know; when I talk face to face with people, I feel like all my failures from early in my career gave me a kind of a big foundation to talk about, where it's like okay, this person clearly has done the studying, has been in the trenches, has done some work. I haven't had a lot of success, but at least, like this kid just needs a chance. Or this kid, he's not a newbie. So I trust this guy to some extent.

And then from then on out it was just, kind of going to more conferences, building my freelance career and you know, kind of trying to develop some long term relationships with people and that type of thing. So, that's how I did it.

Kira:   Okay, this is exciting. So, we're going to talk about, you know, cubbing with Parris and some of these relationships you've built, but it sounds like this first event,<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Rob Marsh, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-rob-marsh-RKsN5kV_e-Q/">The Copywriter Club Podcast</a> (LS 49 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/db8a3e8c2f3d44f4b0c84af63d5d69ea/">TCC Podcast #99: Copywriting Mastery with Jason Rutkowski</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-07-03<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/db8a3e8c2f3d44f4b0c84af63d5d69ea/&notes=TCC Podcast #99: Copywriting Mastery with Jason Rutkowski">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-kira-hug-and-Ebh6cYFTX5g-RKsN5kV_e-Q.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>This is the last episode of the podcast before we hit triple digits—and it’s a good one. Health copywriter Jason Rutkowski joins us for the 99th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast and we covered a lot of ground, from Jason’s secrets for connecting with both mentors and clients to a look inside his copy mastery process (he sent us a screen capture of his file system so you can see what he’s talking about during the podcast). Here’s a look at what we covered:

•  how Jason failed his way to copywriting as a career
•  finding his first few clients and figured out his niche
•  the “one thing” he tried that resulting in connecting with good clients
•  the strategy Jason followed to get A-list copywriters to share their stories with him
•  the single most important thing you can do at live marketing events
•  what it’s like to be “cubbed” by an A-list copywriter
•  why you absolutely need to reverse engineer great copy to get better
•  the difference between a copywriter and a master copywriter
•  the foundational copywriting reference everyone should study
•  Jason’s research process (and how he reverse engineers A-list research)
•  how to get started writing in the health industry
•  the gmail hack for studying the market you want to write for
•  the reason A-list copywriters work with copywriters (an opportunity?)

If you’re interested in not just being a copywriter, but becoming a great copywriter, you’re going to want get this one. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. And of course, you can find it on iTunes, Stitcher or in your favorite podcast app.



 
The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:
Clayton Makepeace
Parris Lampropolous
Marcella Allison
Paul Martinez
John Carlton
Gary Halbert
Jim Rutz
Carline Cole
David Deutsch
AWAI
Barnaby Kalan
The Single Best Way to Get Clients
Parris’ book list
On Writing Well by William Zinsser
The Brilliance Breakthrough by Eugene Schwartz
Brian Kurtz
New Market Health
Health Sense Media
Dr. Gundry
Advanced Bionutritionals
Nature City
Patriot Health Alliance
The Agora
JasonRutkowski.com
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
Intro: Content (for now)
Outro: Gravity
Full Transcript:
Rob:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast.

Kira:   You're invited to join the club for Episode 99 as we chat with freelance copywriter Jason Rutkowski about writing in the health and wellness niche, investing in himself and his expertise, his business and writing processes, and what it took to gain traction as a copywriter when he was just starting out.

Rob:   Hey Jason.

Kira:   Welcome Jason.

Jason:    Hey Kira, hey Rob.

Kira:   How's it going? Glad you're here.

Jason:    Oh no, I'm excited. I haven't done one of these in a while, so I was excited to do it with you.

Rob:   Definitely took a little time to get our schedules aligned. We've been trying to make this happen for a little while, because we know a little bit about you and where you write and we think it'll be a great conversation, so we're glad to have you here.

Jason:     Yeah, definitely.

Kira:   All right, so let's kick this off. Jason, how did you end up as a copywriter?

Jason:     Okay, I'll give you the quick story about this. I was 19. I just finished my freshman year of college. I got an internship at a normal 9-to-5 job. And I realized I hated it. I was like, oh man. I saw all these people who worked in an office, you know, 30, 40 years; I'm like, is this really going to be my life?

And also at the same exact time, I was on the internet one day and I found an internet marketing forum. And I was like, what's an internet marketing forum? I don't know. So I go on it and I see all these guys, like ‘Yeah I just made 200 grand this year, 500 grand this year. I work from home; I'm sitting at my desk all day.’ I'm like what? How is that even possible?

So I started getting really into it. And then I learned about traffic drivers and marketing and product creation and all these things. And I was really confused. And I was like 19, 20 years old. So I heard about copywriting, but I didn't decide to be a freelance copywriter right away. I was like, you know what I'm going to do, I'm going to create my own products; I'm going to do Google Adwords; and I'm going to drive traffic. I'm going to do the whole thing, like from start to finish.

And I horribly failed. You know, I was going to school full-time, and then I was doing this part-time, and I was just failing and failing. And then after a couple of years of that, I decided, okay this isn't working. I'm just going to do copywriting because I think this is what I like most. I don't like doing all this other technical stuff, marketing stuff. I'm just going to do copywriting.

So, from then on out, I just picked a niche. I was like I'll just write in health. And from then on out I just started growing a business.

Rob:   So, I'm interested in what some of those failures looked like. What were the products that you were creating and why were they failing?

Jason:    Oh. I mean, the why is a lot of reasons. The products I was creating, I created kind of an ... E-books were a big thing back then. Back then you could just write an e-book and like sell it and people would buy it. So I created one for anxiety, which I actually went through a lot in the beginning of my life. And I also created a few for some, like headaches solutions and kind of like different health things.

And I put, I don't know, these 150, 200-page books together with just some random info, that I thought was good, but then the whole process of, you know I was trying to organic SEO, trying to target the right keyword. I was in college so I had very little money to actually spend on driving traffic, paid traffic. And I was just doing a lot of things wrong.

It was a lot of small marketing things that you don't know, don't you know it? Like how to do the SEO right, how to do the traffic right. How to do the delivery right. How to build your list. Like, doing a lot of bad stuff with building my list. A lot of mistakes; it was just like, I was just some teenage kid and I didn't know what I was doing.

But I did learn a lot, and I also learned through the process that what I really liked doing the most was the copywriting. So I just decided to give up the whole build my own business thing and do the copywriting thing instead.

Rob:   So what did that look like in the first stages? How did you connect with your first client, and why did you choose the niche that you chose?

Jason:   Oh, back then that was me doing my own stuff. In terms of the freelance copywriting, I started on the freelance websites, which I don't know if it is a good way to do it anymore. But, you know, it was like these cheap little jobs on like Elance and Guru and ... Like, I don't know if that stuff was even worth it. I mean, I guess it paid me some money, and it gave me some actual samples I could send to people. But I didn't really get any good long term clients out of that.

I didn't start getting good long term clients until I decided, and it took me way too long to figure this out, but to actually go to live events, and like talk with people. And actually like start-

Kira:   Wait, what's that? Talking to people? What's that?

Jason:    No, I know. I literally spent like my first three years of copywriting trying to do everything from my room. Like cold calling, Edesk, Olance, like cheap little, I mean, I don't know, I was making still a little money from it. I had like a 9-to-5 office job to support myself, and then I would come home and do this. I wasn't even close to making enough money to support myself.

So I decided, okay the only way this is going to work is if I start going to live events. So I'm like, okay, what live events should I go to? Which ones are good? You know, what's some high quality live events I could go to?

And the first one I ever went to was a Clayton Makepeace, like $5,000 seminar. And I did not have $5,000 by the way. But I did have good credit, so I put it on my credit card. And I actually did, actually. One thing I always thank my mom for is she got me a credit card at 18 and she taught me how to use it. And by the time I was in like, my early to mid-20s I had a credit card with like a $25,000 limit on it.

Kira:   What? That's dangerous.

Jason:           It was completely paid. I know, but I had no debt. Like, it was unused. So I decided to be a little risky and go to this Clayton Makepeace seminar, which ended up being the absolute best decision of my life because I met my mentor Parris Lampropoulos. I met Marcella Allison and I meet Paul Martinez, all at the same conference. We are all very, very good friends to this day.

And then, after that, it was a matter of ... I mean, I don't know; when I talk face to face with people, I feel like all my failures from early in my career gave me a kind of a big foundation to talk about, where it's like okay, this person clearly has done the studying, has been in the trenches, has done some work. I haven't had a lot of success, but at least, like this kid just needs a chance. Or this kid, he's not a newbie. So I trust this guy to some extent.

And then from then on out it was just, kind of going to more conferences, building my freelance career and you know, kind of trying to develop some long term relationships with people and that type of thing. So, that's how I did it.

Kira:   Okay, this is exciting. So, we're going to talk about, you know, cubbing with Parris and some of these relationships you've built, but it sounds like this first event,<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Rob Marsh, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The Copywriter Club Podcast
Episode: TCC Podcast #99: Copywriting Mastery with Jason Rutkowski
Pub date: 2018-07-03

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/db8a3e8c2f3d44f4b0c84af63d5d69ea/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Rob Marsh, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:11:00 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/db8a3e8c2f3d44f4b0c84af63d5d69ea/</guid>
            
            <author>Rob Marsh</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/db8a3e8c2f3d44f4b0c84af63d5d69ea.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The Copywriter Club Podcast</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:46:31</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Rob Marsh</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-copywriter-club-podcast-kira-hug-and-SQR_PVOpbiX-RKsN5kV_e-Q.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>Joanna Wiebe | Conversion Copywriting: Execute Closer to the Transaction [Rebroadcast]</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/afc460e1258d43a2ba6d9dbda194384a</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-jeff-large-podcast-jeff-large-lZMozqesGYD/">The Jeff Large Podcast</a> (LS 28 &middot; TOP 10% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/afc460e1258d43a2ba6d9dbda194384a/">Joanna Wiebe | Conversion Copywriting: Execute Closer to the Transaction [Rebroadcast]</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-11-26<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/afc460e1258d43a2ba6d9dbda194384a/&notes=Joanna Wiebe | Conversion Copywriting: Execute Closer to the Transaction [Rebroadcast]">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-jeff-large-podcast-jeff-large-lZMozqesGYD.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p><img loading="lazy" class="alignright wp-image-1465" src="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Copy-300x200.jpg" alt="Copy" width="400" height="267" srcset="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Copy-300x200.jpg 300w, https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Copy.jpg 600w" sizes="(max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px" />Joanna cuts straight to the point. She says there are not a lot of copywriters who get what copywriting really is. Because “expert” and “copy” are terms that are thrown around loosely, the space quickly becomes confusing.</p>
<p>Copy is everywhere, and copywriting exists to get people to say something. Since the version of yes that you are trying to get them to say comes in many different forms, the actual results can become vague.</p>
<p>But as a business, you don’t want vague. If you’re investing in copy, you need a business result.</p>
<h2>Be a Student of Copy</h2>
<p>Joanna believes all business owners should start out writing their own copy, to understand what truly good copy is.</p>
<p>Copy must convert and persuade. Pay attention to what is going on around you and keep a swipe file. A swipe file should be anything that caught your attention and made you have a reaction. You need to be a student of copy.</p>
<p>Once you’ve done that, go find the why and understand why you keep responding to these various pieces of content. By teaching yourself these things, then you can start testing them and implementing them in your own space.</p>
<blockquote><p><img loading="lazy" class="alignleft wp-image-1466" src="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Learn-200x300.jpg" alt="Learn" width="267" height="400" srcset="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Learn-200x300.jpg 200w, https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Learn.jpg 400w" sizes="(max-width: 267px) 100vw, 267px" />“What works… is basically eavesdropping on your customers… where are your visitors, where are your prospects, what are they talking about, what are they saying they care about and why don’t you just use exactly the language they use? They’re already speaking in natural language, why wouldn’t you just go take what they’re saying?”</p></blockquote>
<p>Source this from surveys, customer reviews, interviews, competitor’s reviews and you’ll be amazed at what people share and how deep they go.</p>
<p>As a student of copy, Joanna is always reading and upping the intensity to continue learning and growing. Then, it’s time to test these hypotheses and see what they can contribute to the conversation.</p>
<p>Listening to your customers and prospects is part of the research process, which will make or break you. This is how you write content and copy that makes people care, because you are able to get into their heads.</p>
<h2>Selective Hearing: A Skill</h2>
<p>When it comes to listening to customer feedback, Joanna is also selective. As someone who is deeply affected by negativity, she takes notes and useful feedback but doesn’t let anyone shove her away from her vision.</p>
<p><img loading="lazy" class="alignright wp-image-1467" src="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Listen-300x201.jpg" alt="Listen" width="400" height="267" srcset="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Listen-300x201.jpg 300w, https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Listen.jpg 600w" sizes="(max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px" />Joanna references Game of Thrones, and how easy it is to overlook yourself as a trusted authority to make decisions. In reality, you’ve been making them all along. You don’t always need permission from your advisors.</p>
<p>You could apply the same mindset to the advice she is sharing in this podcast. Joanna says that as much as she can say, do this and don’t do that, you won’t truly know what works until you put it in front of your audience.</p>
<blockquote><p>“Never expect that things that work for other people will work for you. Take them, try them, but don’t just blindly go forward with what you learn in a blog post or what someone told you works really well.”</p></blockquote>
<h2>Testing isn’t Optional</h2>
<p>Because we are in a constant state of optimization, you have to keep reading and studying and evolving, and that’s why testing is so important.</p>
<p>Businesses know they should test, but they get impatient because it takes time to create an effective plan that gives real results. However, Joanna says that the best way to combat this impatience is to focus on the smaller checkpoints.</p>
<p>The sooner you can get the client quick wins through emails or Facebook ads, they will be more willing to take the time for testing something that takes a lot longer like a landing page.</p>
<h2>Focus and Execute</h2>
<p>You hear about all of these trends which makes it hard to focus on what is important. What should you work on? Joanna says you should focus on getting better at one thing: executing closer to where the money changes hands.</p>
<blockquote><p><img loading="lazy" class="alignleft wp-image-1468" src="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Connect-300x200.jpg" alt="Connect" width="400" height="267" srcset="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Connect-300x200.jpg 300w, https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Connect.jpg 600w" sizes="(max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px" />“You get to the point where you realize well hold on, it all really does come down to what’s on the page or what’s in the email because that’s where we talk to the customer. That’s the customer interaction point. That’s where the money can change hands. Although the theory in all of that other stuff is good, we find that we get a lot of referrals to us from the consultancies that are up at the top of that where they’re like ‘Ah, we need to execute on something now.’ And I’m like ‘Yeah, you do! You should have been executing on it the whole time!’ Invest closest to it where the money changes hands.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Connect with customers and focus on copy that converts. It’s the words you use that get people to say yes.</p>
<blockquote><p>“You tend to want to edit out the feeling, but that’s where the sale starts to happen where they’re actually feeling that pain and then you get into that solution.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Joanna talks about the importance of defining the problem and illustrating moments where the client suffered because of the problem. Once the client is feeling the pain of the specific problem you are going to solve, that’s when you solve it for them.</p>
<p>Her challenge to you is a tough one: in the next thing that you write, specifically a landing page, no more than 10% of the words can be yours. Goodluck!</p>
<p><strong>Contact:</strong><br />
<a href="https://twitter.com/copyhackers">Twitter</a><br />
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/wordworkers/about/">Word Workers</a><br />
<a href="http://Copyhackers.com">Copyhackers.com</a><br />
<a href="http://Airstory.co">Airstory.co</a></p>
<p><strong>Credits:</strong><br />
Hosted by <a href="http://JeffLarge.com">JeffLarge.com/about</a><br />
Produced and Powered by <a href="http://ComeAliveCreative.com">ComeAliveCreative.com</a><br />
Music provided by <a href="http://SoundCloud.com/Birocratic">Birocratic</a></p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Jeff Large, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-jeff-large-podcast-jeff-large-lZMozqesGYD/">The Jeff Large Podcast</a> (LS 28 &middot; TOP 10% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/afc460e1258d43a2ba6d9dbda194384a/">Joanna Wiebe | Conversion Copywriting: Execute Closer to the Transaction [Rebroadcast]</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-11-26<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/afc460e1258d43a2ba6d9dbda194384a/&notes=Joanna Wiebe | Conversion Copywriting: Execute Closer to the Transaction [Rebroadcast]">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-jeff-large-podcast-jeff-large-lZMozqesGYD.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p><img loading="lazy" class="alignright wp-image-1465" src="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Copy-300x200.jpg" alt="Copy" width="400" height="267" srcset="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Copy-300x200.jpg 300w, https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Copy.jpg 600w" sizes="(max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px" />Joanna cuts straight to the point. She says there are not a lot of copywriters who get what copywriting really is. Because “expert” and “copy” are terms that are thrown around loosely, the space quickly becomes confusing.</p>
<p>Copy is everywhere, and copywriting exists to get people to say something. Since the version of yes that you are trying to get them to say comes in many different forms, the actual results can become vague.</p>
<p>But as a business, you don’t want vague. If you’re investing in copy, you need a business result.</p>
<h2>Be a Student of Copy</h2>
<p>Joanna believes all business owners should start out writing their own copy, to understand what truly good copy is.</p>
<p>Copy must convert and persuade. Pay attention to what is going on around you and keep a swipe file. A swipe file should be anything that caught your attention and made you have a reaction. You need to be a student of copy.</p>
<p>Once you’ve done that, go find the why and understand why you keep responding to these various pieces of content. By teaching yourself these things, then you can start testing them and implementing them in your own space.</p>
<blockquote><p><img loading="lazy" class="alignleft wp-image-1466" src="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Learn-200x300.jpg" alt="Learn" width="267" height="400" srcset="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Learn-200x300.jpg 200w, https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Learn.jpg 400w" sizes="(max-width: 267px) 100vw, 267px" />“What works… is basically eavesdropping on your customers… where are your visitors, where are your prospects, what are they talking about, what are they saying they care about and why don’t you just use exactly the language they use? They’re already speaking in natural language, why wouldn’t you just go take what they’re saying?”</p></blockquote>
<p>Source this from surveys, customer reviews, interviews, competitor’s reviews and you’ll be amazed at what people share and how deep they go.</p>
<p>As a student of copy, Joanna is always reading and upping the intensity to continue learning and growing. Then, it’s time to test these hypotheses and see what they can contribute to the conversation.</p>
<p>Listening to your customers and prospects is part of the research process, which will make or break you. This is how you write content and copy that makes people care, because you are able to get into their heads.</p>
<h2>Selective Hearing: A Skill</h2>
<p>When it comes to listening to customer feedback, Joanna is also selective. As someone who is deeply affected by negativity, she takes notes and useful feedback but doesn’t let anyone shove her away from her vision.</p>
<p><img loading="lazy" class="alignright wp-image-1467" src="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Listen-300x201.jpg" alt="Listen" width="400" height="267" srcset="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Listen-300x201.jpg 300w, https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Listen.jpg 600w" sizes="(max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px" />Joanna references Game of Thrones, and how easy it is to overlook yourself as a trusted authority to make decisions. In reality, you’ve been making them all along. You don’t always need permission from your advisors.</p>
<p>You could apply the same mindset to the advice she is sharing in this podcast. Joanna says that as much as she can say, do this and don’t do that, you won’t truly know what works until you put it in front of your audience.</p>
<blockquote><p>“Never expect that things that work for other people will work for you. Take them, try them, but don’t just blindly go forward with what you learn in a blog post or what someone told you works really well.”</p></blockquote>
<h2>Testing isn’t Optional</h2>
<p>Because we are in a constant state of optimization, you have to keep reading and studying and evolving, and that’s why testing is so important.</p>
<p>Businesses know they should test, but they get impatient because it takes time to create an effective plan that gives real results. However, Joanna says that the best way to combat this impatience is to focus on the smaller checkpoints.</p>
<p>The sooner you can get the client quick wins through emails or Facebook ads, they will be more willing to take the time for testing something that takes a lot longer like a landing page.</p>
<h2>Focus and Execute</h2>
<p>You hear about all of these trends which makes it hard to focus on what is important. What should you work on? Joanna says you should focus on getting better at one thing: executing closer to where the money changes hands.</p>
<blockquote><p><img loading="lazy" class="alignleft wp-image-1468" src="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Connect-300x200.jpg" alt="Connect" width="400" height="267" srcset="https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Connect-300x200.jpg 300w, https://www.jefflarge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Connect.jpg 600w" sizes="(max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px" />“You get to the point where you realize well hold on, it all really does come down to what’s on the page or what’s in the email because that’s where we talk to the customer. That’s the customer interaction point. That’s where the money can change hands. Although the theory in all of that other stuff is good, we find that we get a lot of referrals to us from the consultancies that are up at the top of that where they’re like ‘Ah, we need to execute on something now.’ And I’m like ‘Yeah, you do! You should have been executing on it the whole time!’ Invest closest to it where the money changes hands.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Connect with customers and focus on copy that converts. It’s the words you use that get people to say yes.</p>
<blockquote><p>“You tend to want to edit out the feeling, but that’s where the sale starts to happen where they’re actually feeling that pain and then you get into that solution.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Joanna talks about the importance of defining the problem and illustrating moments where the client suffered because of the problem. Once the client is feeling the pain of the specific problem you are going to solve, that’s when you solve it for them.</p>
<p>Her challenge to you is a tough one: in the next thing that you write, specifically a landing page, no more than 10% of the words can be yours. Goodluck!</p>
<p><strong>Contact:</strong><br />
<a href="https://twitter.com/copyhackers">Twitter</a><br />
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/wordworkers/about/">Word Workers</a><br />
<a href="http://Copyhackers.com">Copyhackers.com</a><br />
<a href="http://Airstory.co">Airstory.co</a></p>
<p><strong>Credits:</strong><br />
Hosted by <a href="http://JeffLarge.com">JeffLarge.com/about</a><br />
Produced and Powered by <a href="http://ComeAliveCreative.com">ComeAliveCreative.com</a><br />
Music provided by <a href="http://SoundCloud.com/Birocratic">Birocratic</a></p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Jeff Large, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The Jeff Large Podcast
Episode: Joanna Wiebe | Conversion Copywriting: Execute Closer to the Transaction [Rebroadcast]
Pub date: 2018-11-26

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/afc460e1258d43a2ba6d9dbda194384a/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Jeff Large, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:10:39 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/afc460e1258d43a2ba6d9dbda194384a/</guid>
            
            <author>Jeff Large</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/afc460e1258d43a2ba6d9dbda194384a.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The Jeff Large Podcast</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:53:56</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Jeff Large</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-jeff-large-podcast-jeff-large-lZMozqesGYD.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>How to Write Facebook Ads That Sell</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/f31b9b95f2b04a04a939f49fdaa54de0</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/social-media-marketing-podcast-michael-ykeMUOJYv7W/">Social Media Marketing Podcast</a> (LS 63 &middot; TOP 0.1% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/f31b9b95f2b04a04a939f49fdaa54de0/">How to Write Facebook Ads That Sell</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-05-24<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/f31b9b95f2b04a04a939f49fdaa54de0/&notes=How to Write Facebook Ads That Sell">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/social-media-marketing-podcast-michael-zi7lmEcpuG8-ykeMUOJYv7W.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>Do you want to create ad copy that sells? Wondering how you can improve your Facebook ads?</p> <p>To explore how to write Facebook ad copy that converts, I interview Ken Moskowitz, founder of Ad Zombies, one of the world’s top flat-fee ad copywriting services.</p> <p>Show notes: <a href="https://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/355">https://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/355</a></p><p>See Privacy Policy at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy</a> and California Privacy Notice at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info</a>.</p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Michael Stelzner, Social Media Examiner, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/social-media-marketing-podcast-michael-ykeMUOJYv7W/">Social Media Marketing Podcast</a> (LS 63 &middot; TOP 0.1% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/f31b9b95f2b04a04a939f49fdaa54de0/">How to Write Facebook Ads That Sell</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-05-24<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/f31b9b95f2b04a04a939f49fdaa54de0/&notes=How to Write Facebook Ads That Sell">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/social-media-marketing-podcast-michael-zi7lmEcpuG8-ykeMUOJYv7W.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>Do you want to create ad copy that sells? Wondering how you can improve your Facebook ads?</p> <p>To explore how to write Facebook ad copy that converts, I interview Ken Moskowitz, founder of Ad Zombies, one of the world’s top flat-fee ad copywriting services.</p> <p>Show notes: <a href="https://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/355">https://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/355</a></p><p>See Privacy Policy at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy</a> and California Privacy Notice at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info</a>.</p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Michael Stelzner, Social Media Examiner, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: Social Media Marketing Podcast
Episode: How to Write Facebook Ads That Sell
Pub date: 2019-05-24

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/f31b9b95f2b04a04a939f49fdaa54de0/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Michael Stelzner, Social Media Examiner, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:10:27 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/f31b9b95f2b04a04a939f49fdaa54de0/</guid>
            
            <author>Michael Stelzner, Social Media Examiner</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/f31b9b95f2b04a04a939f49fdaa54de0.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>Social Media Marketing Podcast</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:50:02</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Michael Stelzner, Social Media Examiner</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/social-media-marketing-podcast-michael-lsj8aQvS7YE-ykeMUOJYv7W.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>EP 294: How to Use Conversational Copywriting to Improve Your SEO w/Nick Usborne</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/809dae1d6df544c4b9a4a51dfeb6d0ec</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/edge-of-the-web-the-best-seo-podcast-for-R8dAE3qbxih/">EDGE of the Web - The Best SEO Podcast for Today's Digital Marketer</a> (LS 38 &middot; TOP 2% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/809dae1d6df544c4b9a4a51dfeb6d0ec/">EP 294: How to Use Conversational Copywriting to Improve Your SEO w/Nick Usborne</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-12-11<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/809dae1d6df544c4b9a4a51dfeb6d0ec/&notes=EP 294: How to Use Conversational Copywriting to Improve Your SEO w/Nick Usborne">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/edge-of-the-web-the-best-seo-podcast-for-bSCJ29hHNxs-R8dAE3qbxih.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>Have you ever read your own website and thought, "That just doesn't sound like me?" or maybe your sales copy feels too pushy? The future of SEO is natural language (Think voice search) and so we were excited to talk to Nick Usborne about his new course Conversational Copywriting.</p> <p>Nick Usborne has been a copywriter for 40 years and has written for some of the world's biggest brands including Apple, WebEx, Chrysler, and Citibank. He has recently launched a new online training course and blog called Conversational Copywriting where he is looking to change the way we think about content.</p> <p>Also, we learn more about WordPress 5.0, DuckDuckGo and their new study and find out what Amazon is doing to get advertisers to give them free advertising.</p> <p>All this and more on this episode of EDGE of the Web!</p> <p> </p> <p>Sponsor</p> <p>EDGE of the Web is brought to you by Site Strategics and they are offering to help you find out your digital marketing ROI. The Digital Marketing ROI Report will examine your existing SEO, content, social media, and PPC to help you discover your TRUE ROI.</p> <p>Visit https://edgeofthewebradio.com/roi/ to get 30% off your comprehensive review of your digital assets!</p> <p> </p> <p>Edge of the Web Radio is brought to you by Site Strategics. Site Strategics is a web design and marketing services company that not only helps business owners look good on the internet but helps ensure you come to the top positions on major search engines. Are you looking for a professional SEO firm? Site Strategics curtails its business to Indianapolis, Indiana -- but also works nationwide and globally. To learn more, visit our website at http://www.sitestrategics.com/ or http://www.edgemedia.studio</p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Erin Sparks, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/edge-of-the-web-the-best-seo-podcast-for-R8dAE3qbxih/">EDGE of the Web - The Best SEO Podcast for Today's Digital Marketer</a> (LS 38 &middot; TOP 2% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/809dae1d6df544c4b9a4a51dfeb6d0ec/">EP 294: How to Use Conversational Copywriting to Improve Your SEO w/Nick Usborne</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-12-11<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/809dae1d6df544c4b9a4a51dfeb6d0ec/&notes=EP 294: How to Use Conversational Copywriting to Improve Your SEO w/Nick Usborne">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/edge-of-the-web-the-best-seo-podcast-for-bSCJ29hHNxs-R8dAE3qbxih.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>Have you ever read your own website and thought, "That just doesn't sound like me?" or maybe your sales copy feels too pushy? The future of SEO is natural language (Think voice search) and so we were excited to talk to Nick Usborne about his new course Conversational Copywriting.</p> <p>Nick Usborne has been a copywriter for 40 years and has written for some of the world's biggest brands including Apple, WebEx, Chrysler, and Citibank. He has recently launched a new online training course and blog called Conversational Copywriting where he is looking to change the way we think about content.</p> <p>Also, we learn more about WordPress 5.0, DuckDuckGo and their new study and find out what Amazon is doing to get advertisers to give them free advertising.</p> <p>All this and more on this episode of EDGE of the Web!</p> <p> </p> <p>Sponsor</p> <p>EDGE of the Web is brought to you by Site Strategics and they are offering to help you find out your digital marketing ROI. The Digital Marketing ROI Report will examine your existing SEO, content, social media, and PPC to help you discover your TRUE ROI.</p> <p>Visit https://edgeofthewebradio.com/roi/ to get 30% off your comprehensive review of your digital assets!</p> <p> </p> <p>Edge of the Web Radio is brought to you by Site Strategics. Site Strategics is a web design and marketing services company that not only helps business owners look good on the internet but helps ensure you come to the top positions on major search engines. Are you looking for a professional SEO firm? Site Strategics curtails its business to Indianapolis, Indiana -- but also works nationwide and globally. To learn more, visit our website at http://www.sitestrategics.com/ or http://www.edgemedia.studio</p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Erin Sparks, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: EDGE of the Web - The Best SEO Podcast for Today's Digital Marketer
Episode: EP 294: How to Use Conversational Copywriting to Improve Your SEO w/Nick Usborne
Pub date: 2018-12-11

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/809dae1d6df544c4b9a4a51dfeb6d0ec/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Erin Sparks, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:10:12 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/809dae1d6df544c4b9a4a51dfeb6d0ec/</guid>
            
            <author>Erin Sparks</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/809dae1d6df544c4b9a4a51dfeb6d0ec.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>EDGE of the Web - The Best SEO Podcast for Today&#x27;s Digital Marketer</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>01:00:17</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Erin Sparks</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/edge-of-the-web-the-best-seo-podcast-for-L8Ghfua2N4K-R8dAE3qbxih.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>Neville Medhora on the Best Way to Learn Copywriting</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/fb5b218167e74899b878768911bd201f</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/everyone-hates-marketers-no-bs-marketing-bzfnIVdcsgY/">Everyone Hates Marketers | No-BS Marketing & Brand Strategy Podcast</a> (LS 48 &middot; TOP 1% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/fb5b218167e74899b878768911bd201f/">Neville Medhora on the Best Way to Learn Copywriting</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-07-31<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/fb5b218167e74899b878768911bd201f/&notes=Neville Medhora on the Best Way to Learn Copywriting">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/everyone-hates-marketers-no-bs-marketing-BxKrjOkAtCn-bzfnIVdcsgY.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p></p><p><strong>I’m so f*cking happy to announce that ​my book, </strong><strong><em>Stand The F*ck Out</em></strong><strong>, is officially available for PURCHASE​!</strong> To buy the book—and more!—DIRECTLY from us and support our small business, go to: <a href="https://book.stfo.io/">book.stfo.io</a></p><p>Free Shipping Worldwide • Ripped Apart by 70+ Marketers • Money-Back Guarantee • Secure Online Payment</p><p>***</p><br /><strong><br />Who is Neville Medhora?<br /></strong><br /><p>Neville Medhora runs a company called Kopywriting Kourse, where he trains business teams on how to write outstanding copy and content that performs. He's an author, former eCommerce store owner, and has written copy for companies like AppSumo, The Hustle, and SumoMe.</p><p><strong>What is the Kopywriting Kourse?<br /></strong><br /></p><p>The Kopywriting Kourse is training that's designed to turn beginning copywriters into pros. Businesses work with Neville to teach their teams how to improve their copy and profitability, while freelancers learn how to jumpstart their copywriting career.</p><p><strong>Topics covered:</strong></p><p><strong><br />Neville Medhora's Copywriting Advice<br /></strong><br /></p><p>In this interview, Neville explains why he doesn’t think of copywriting as words on a page. His philosophy? Copywriting is about transmitting information from one brain to another. It's not only the written word on the page but the reaction in your brain when you read those words.</p><p><strong>How to Beat Writer’s Block<br /></strong><br /></p><p>According to Neville, you can get over writer's block with two simple solutions. One is to look at what other people are doing with a swipe file. This is a collection of other people’s writing, where you can look at old ads for inspiration.The other way is to start with a template — and work through it backward. Neville recommends you never start with a blank page, but instead, you keep a file of topics you want to write about. Then you can dive into research straight away, so you never have to face the White Blank Page again. Tune in for his in-depth explanation on overcoming writer’s block.</p><p><strong>How to Write a Good About Us Page<br /></strong><br /></p><p>Want to learn how to write better About pages? Listen in to hear Neville break down the steps on writing a good About Us page. Neville explains that the main goal of your About page is really to direct them to action at the end. What's the next step for your reader?Likewise, we also cover the different types of About pages and how you should structure them. For example, if your website is informational, the way you approach your story should be different from the ecommerce website that sells physical products.</p><p><strong>How to Write Good Headlines<br /></strong><br /></p><p>We also cover how to write headlines with Neville’s painless formulas, and here’s how it goes. What Neville does for companies is write out 10 headlines. Then he’ll go away for 24 hours, so he can look at those headlines again with fresh eyes. The next step is bold the ones that jump out at you. Generally, there will always be one or two that stand out way more than the others. Neville also reveals a surprising myth about the relevance of headlines — and an easy trick for stealing your headline copy from Amazon.</p><p><strong>Resources mentioned:</strong></p><ul><li><a href="https://kopywritingkourse.com/">Kopywriting Kourse</a></li><li><a href="https://airtable.com/">Airtable</a></li><li><a href="https://swipefile.com/">Swipe File</a></li><li><a href="https://kopywritingkourse.com/call-to-action-examples/">Absurd Calls to Action</a></li><li><a href="https://kopywritingkourse.com/how-to-write-an-about-us-page/">How to Create an Amazing “About Us” Page</a></li><li><a href="http://www.thegaryhalbertletter.com/Boron/BoronLetterCh1.htm">The Boron Letters</a></li><li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Adweek-Copywriting-Handbook-Advertising-Copywriters/dp/0470051248">The Adweek Copywriting Handbook</a></li></ul><p><br /></p><p>***</p><p>→ <strong>Buy my book:</strong> <a href="https://book.stfo.io/">book.stfo.io</a><br />→ <strong>Join 14,000+ weirdos who learn to stand the f*ck out with my daily (Mon-Fri) emails</strong>:<strong> </strong><a href="https://www.everyonehatesmarketers.com/">everyonehatesmarketers.com</a><br />→ <strong>See my pretty face on LinkedIn</strong>: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/</a><br />→ <strong>Leave a review on Apple Podcasts:</strong> <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/everyone-hates-marketers/id1221256195?itscg=30200S&amp;itsct=podcast_box">https://apple.co/3p4wL4r</a><br />→ <strong>Leave a review on Spotify:</strong> <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/7iEF1qovZZiaP1iRtxGARo">https://open.spotify.com/show/7iEF1qovZZiaP1iRtxGARo</a></p><p><br />Finally...</p><p>If you're curious about putting your brand in front of my 14,000+ daily newsletter subscribers and/or podcast listeners, email me: louis@stfo.io</p><p>🤘</p><p><br /></p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Louis Grenier | Marketing & Branding, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/everyone-hates-marketers-no-bs-marketing-bzfnIVdcsgY/">Everyone Hates Marketers | No-BS Marketing & Brand Strategy Podcast</a> (LS 48 &middot; TOP 1% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/fb5b218167e74899b878768911bd201f/">Neville Medhora on the Best Way to Learn Copywriting</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-07-31<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/fb5b218167e74899b878768911bd201f/&notes=Neville Medhora on the Best Way to Learn Copywriting">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/everyone-hates-marketers-no-bs-marketing-BxKrjOkAtCn-bzfnIVdcsgY.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p></p><p><strong>I’m so f*cking happy to announce that ​my book, </strong><strong><em>Stand The F*ck Out</em></strong><strong>, is officially available for PURCHASE​!</strong> To buy the book—and more!—DIRECTLY from us and support our small business, go to: <a href="https://book.stfo.io/">book.stfo.io</a></p><p>Free Shipping Worldwide • Ripped Apart by 70+ Marketers • Money-Back Guarantee • Secure Online Payment</p><p>***</p><br /><strong><br />Who is Neville Medhora?<br /></strong><br /><p>Neville Medhora runs a company called Kopywriting Kourse, where he trains business teams on how to write outstanding copy and content that performs. He's an author, former eCommerce store owner, and has written copy for companies like AppSumo, The Hustle, and SumoMe.</p><p><strong>What is the Kopywriting Kourse?<br /></strong><br /></p><p>The Kopywriting Kourse is training that's designed to turn beginning copywriters into pros. Businesses work with Neville to teach their teams how to improve their copy and profitability, while freelancers learn how to jumpstart their copywriting career.</p><p><strong>Topics covered:</strong></p><p><strong><br />Neville Medhora's Copywriting Advice<br /></strong><br /></p><p>In this interview, Neville explains why he doesn’t think of copywriting as words on a page. His philosophy? Copywriting is about transmitting information from one brain to another. It's not only the written word on the page but the reaction in your brain when you read those words.</p><p><strong>How to Beat Writer’s Block<br /></strong><br /></p><p>According to Neville, you can get over writer's block with two simple solutions. One is to look at what other people are doing with a swipe file. This is a collection of other people’s writing, where you can look at old ads for inspiration.The other way is to start with a template — and work through it backward. Neville recommends you never start with a blank page, but instead, you keep a file of topics you want to write about. Then you can dive into research straight away, so you never have to face the White Blank Page again. Tune in for his in-depth explanation on overcoming writer’s block.</p><p><strong>How to Write a Good About Us Page<br /></strong><br /></p><p>Want to learn how to write better About pages? Listen in to hear Neville break down the steps on writing a good About Us page. Neville explains that the main goal of your About page is really to direct them to action at the end. What's the next step for your reader?Likewise, we also cover the different types of About pages and how you should structure them. For example, if your website is informational, the way you approach your story should be different from the ecommerce website that sells physical products.</p><p><strong>How to Write Good Headlines<br /></strong><br /></p><p>We also cover how to write headlines with Neville’s painless formulas, and here’s how it goes. What Neville does for companies is write out 10 headlines. Then he’ll go away for 24 hours, so he can look at those headlines again with fresh eyes. The next step is bold the ones that jump out at you. Generally, there will always be one or two that stand out way more than the others. Neville also reveals a surprising myth about the relevance of headlines — and an easy trick for stealing your headline copy from Amazon.</p><p><strong>Resources mentioned:</strong></p><ul><li><a href="https://kopywritingkourse.com/">Kopywriting Kourse</a></li><li><a href="https://airtable.com/">Airtable</a></li><li><a href="https://swipefile.com/">Swipe File</a></li><li><a href="https://kopywritingkourse.com/call-to-action-examples/">Absurd Calls to Action</a></li><li><a href="https://kopywritingkourse.com/how-to-write-an-about-us-page/">How to Create an Amazing “About Us” Page</a></li><li><a href="http://www.thegaryhalbertletter.com/Boron/BoronLetterCh1.htm">The Boron Letters</a></li><li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Adweek-Copywriting-Handbook-Advertising-Copywriters/dp/0470051248">The Adweek Copywriting Handbook</a></li></ul><p><br /></p><p>***</p><p>→ <strong>Buy my book:</strong> <a href="https://book.stfo.io/">book.stfo.io</a><br />→ <strong>Join 14,000+ weirdos who learn to stand the f*ck out with my daily (Mon-Fri) emails</strong>:<strong> </strong><a href="https://www.everyonehatesmarketers.com/">everyonehatesmarketers.com</a><br />→ <strong>See my pretty face on LinkedIn</strong>: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/</a><br />→ <strong>Leave a review on Apple Podcasts:</strong> <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/everyone-hates-marketers/id1221256195?itscg=30200S&amp;itsct=podcast_box">https://apple.co/3p4wL4r</a><br />→ <strong>Leave a review on Spotify:</strong> <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/7iEF1qovZZiaP1iRtxGARo">https://open.spotify.com/show/7iEF1qovZZiaP1iRtxGARo</a></p><p><br />Finally...</p><p>If you're curious about putting your brand in front of my 14,000+ daily newsletter subscribers and/or podcast listeners, email me: louis@stfo.io</p><p>🤘</p><p><br /></p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Louis Grenier | Marketing & Branding, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: Everyone Hates Marketers | No-BS Marketing & Brand Strategy Podcast
Episode: Neville Medhora on the Best Way to Learn Copywriting
Pub date: 2018-07-31

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/fb5b218167e74899b878768911bd201f/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Louis Grenier | Marketing & Branding, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:08:59 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/fb5b218167e74899b878768911bd201f/</guid>
            
            <author>Louis Grenier | Marketing &amp; Branding</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/fb5b218167e74899b878768911bd201f.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>Everyone Hates Marketers | No-BS Marketing &amp; Brand Strategy Podcast</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>01:05:22</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Louis Grenier | Marketing &amp; Branding</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/everyone-hates-marketers-no-bs-marketing-nFyjSKPDfeM-bzfnIVdcsgY.1400x1400.jpg" />
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        <item>
            <title>SPI 327: How to Write Copy that Sells with Ray Edwards</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/d2ee1a8894074c7abac8cea56f56f915</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-smart-passive-income-online-business-NDa6-ySp9kw/">The Smart Passive Income Online Business and Blogging Podcast</a> (LS 70 &middot; TOP 0.05% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/d2ee1a8894074c7abac8cea56f56f915/">SPI 327: How to Write Copy that Sells with Ray Edwards</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-07-18<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/d2ee1a8894074c7abac8cea56f56f915/&notes=SPI 327: How to Write Copy that Sells with Ray Edwards">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-smart-passive-income-online-business-yln-CKo5wZx-NDa6-ySp9kw.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>#327: Learn techniques and foundations for powerful, success-driven sales copy with copywriting master Ray Edwards. You'll learn how to connect with your readers, prove the value of your product, and create bonuses to help with your pitch. Podcast show notes available here: https://www.smartpassiveincome.com/session327

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Liz Wilcox, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-smart-passive-income-online-business-NDa6-ySp9kw/">The Smart Passive Income Online Business and Blogging Podcast</a> (LS 70 &middot; TOP 0.05% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/d2ee1a8894074c7abac8cea56f56f915/">SPI 327: How to Write Copy that Sells with Ray Edwards</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-07-18<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/d2ee1a8894074c7abac8cea56f56f915/&notes=SPI 327: How to Write Copy that Sells with Ray Edwards">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-smart-passive-income-online-business-yln-CKo5wZx-NDa6-ySp9kw.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br>#327: Learn techniques and foundations for powerful, success-driven sales copy with copywriting master Ray Edwards. You'll learn how to connect with your readers, prove the value of your product, and create bonuses to help with your pitch. Podcast show notes available here: https://www.smartpassiveincome.com/session327

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.<br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Liz Wilcox, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The Smart Passive Income Online Business and Blogging Podcast
Episode: SPI 327: How to Write Copy that Sells with Ray Edwards
Pub date: 2018-07-18

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/d2ee1a8894074c7abac8cea56f56f915/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Liz Wilcox, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:08:54 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/d2ee1a8894074c7abac8cea56f56f915/</guid>
            
            <author>Liz Wilcox</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/d2ee1a8894074c7abac8cea56f56f915.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The Smart Passive Income Online Business and Blogging Podcast</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:50:17</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Liz Wilcox</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-smart-passive-income-online-business-bwW52noQpzY-NDa6-ySp9kw.1400x1400.jpg" />
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        <item>
            <title>The Power of Vulnerability in Copywriting</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/01eb74dbbdf04c08bb77020d18788c7b</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/call-to-action-unbounce-sozeJUO_gMT/">Call to Action</a> (LS 41 &middot; TOP 1.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/01eb74dbbdf04c08bb77020d18788c7b/">The Power of Vulnerability in Copywriting</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2015-11-04<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/01eb74dbbdf04c08bb77020d18788c7b/&notes=The Power of Vulnerability in Copywriting">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/call-to-action-unbounce-YhE1Zza5M7G-sozeJUO_gMT.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>Good copywriters aren't afraid to put themselves out there. They write from the heart and let their true voice shine through in their work.</p> <p>But being authentic shouldn't come at the expense of writing clear, helpful copy. So how do you make your boss and clients happy without sacrificing your voice?</p> <p>In this episode of the Call to Action podcast, we chat with Unbounce writer Brad Tiller about reconciling your company's (or client's) voice and your own. Then, we speak to Brian Lenney, copywriter at Inbound.org, about how you can use the power of vulnerability in your copy to connect with prospects and push them toward conversion.</p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Unbounce, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/call-to-action-unbounce-sozeJUO_gMT/">Call to Action</a> (LS 41 &middot; TOP 1.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/01eb74dbbdf04c08bb77020d18788c7b/">The Power of Vulnerability in Copywriting</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2015-11-04<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/01eb74dbbdf04c08bb77020d18788c7b/&notes=The Power of Vulnerability in Copywriting">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/call-to-action-unbounce-YhE1Zza5M7G-sozeJUO_gMT.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>Good copywriters aren't afraid to put themselves out there. They write from the heart and let their true voice shine through in their work.</p> <p>But being authentic shouldn't come at the expense of writing clear, helpful copy. So how do you make your boss and clients happy without sacrificing your voice?</p> <p>In this episode of the Call to Action podcast, we chat with Unbounce writer Brad Tiller about reconciling your company's (or client's) voice and your own. Then, we speak to Brian Lenney, copywriter at Inbound.org, about how you can use the power of vulnerability in your copy to connect with prospects and push them toward conversion.</p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Unbounce, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: Call to Action
Episode: The Power of Vulnerability in Copywriting
Pub date: 2015-11-04

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/01eb74dbbdf04c08bb77020d18788c7b/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Unbounce, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:08:48 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/01eb74dbbdf04c08bb77020d18788c7b/</guid>
            
            <author>Unbounce</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/01eb74dbbdf04c08bb77020d18788c7b.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>Call to Action</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:25:12</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Unbounce</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/call-to-action-unbounce-X6zHQhNJGbZ-sozeJUO_gMT.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>Copywriting Decoded: How to Turn Copy into Conversions</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/1526d4e94e71467099811e3fbcb92e14</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-unofficial-shopify-podcast-kurt-elster-BqzDjoexMh1/">The Unofficial Shopify Podcast</a> (LS 51 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/1526d4e94e71467099811e3fbcb92e14/">Copywriting Decoded: How to Turn Copy into Conversions</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-04-03<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/1526d4e94e71467099811e3fbcb92e14/&notes=Copywriting Decoded: How to Turn Copy into Conversions">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-unofficial-shopify-podcast-kurt-elster-jfubC4Uesg0-BqzDjoexMh1.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>Why is copywriting so hard? It took me years to figure it out.</p>
<p>The answer is likely mindset. There are a few mental hurdles you need to get over if you're going to write effective web copy that converts.</p>
<p>(And you should, optimizing copy can do more for your conversion rate than any other tactic.)</p>
<p>To help us break it down, fellow podcaster David Garfinkel joins us.</p>
<p>David mentors business owners and professional copywriters to go from good to great! Many of his clients have created websites, sales letters, and ads that have made millions, both for themselves and others.</p>
<p>David's the author of the bestselling book &quot;Breakthrough Copywriting,&quot; and has written copy himself that has made millions of dollars. His all-time record was a sales letter for a six-person company that generated $40 million in sales. David also hosts the popular Copywriters Podcast.</p>
<h2>You'll Learn</h2>
<ul>
<li>If you’re new to copywriting, what are the key things you need to know to make your copy convert?</li>
<li>If you have copy that’s not converting now, what can you do to get it working?</li>
<li>If you have copy that’s converting and you’d like it to work better, what can you do to improve conversions?</li>
<li>What are some resources (free, as well as lower investment and higher investment) a marketer can use to become better at putting together copy that converts?</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Tune in for more details!</strong></p>
<h2>Resources</h2>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://amzn.to/2oPCR6B">Breakthrough Copywriting: How To Generate Quick Cash With The Written Word</a></li>
<li><a href="http://garfinkelcoaching.com/podcast">Copywriters Podcast</a></li>
<li><a href="http://highspeedcopywriting.com/">High Speed Copywriting (DVD and workbook seminar)</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.garfinkelcoaching.com/copy-critiques/">Have David critique your copy</a></li>
<li><a href="http://garfinkelcoaching.com/">Garfinkel Coaching</a></li>
</ul>
<h2>Share your thoughts</h2>
<ul>
<li>Ask a question in <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/UnofficialShopifyPodcast/">The Unofficial Shopify Podcast Facebook Group</a></li>
<li>Share this show on <a href="https://twitter.com/shopifypodcast">Twitter</a></li>
</ul>
<h2>Never miss an episode</h2>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/unofficial-shopify-podcast/id918602360">Subscribe on iTunes</a></li>
<li><a href="http://kurtelster.com/">Join Kurt's newsletter</a></li>
</ul>
<h2>Help the show</h2>
<ul>
<li>Leave an honest review on <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/unofficial-shopify-podcast/id918602360">iTunes</a>. Your ratings &amp; reviews help, and I read each one.</li>
<li><a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/unofficial-shopify-podcast/id918602360">Subscribe on iTunes</a></li>
</ul>
<h2>What's Kurt up to?</h2>
<ul>
<li>See our <a href="https://ethercycle.com/work/">recent work at Ethercycle</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqkCdtyY1d4">Take a ride</a> with Kurt on <a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/ethercycle">YouTube</a></li>
</ul>
<h2>Grow Your Store in 2018</h2>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://ethercycle.com/apply">Apply to work with Kurt</a> to grow your store.</li>
<li>Prefer to DIY? Read a free sample chapter of Kurt's book <em>Ecommerce Bootcamp</em>, absolutely free. Tell me where to send your sample at <a href="http://ecommerce-bootcamp.com/" title="Ecommerce Bootcamp - The Step-by-Step Shopify Marketing Playbook">ecommerce-bootcamp.com</a></li>
<li><a href="https://ethercycle.com/shopify-plus/">Learn Shopify Plus got that regular Shopify doesn’t?”</a></li>
</ul><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Kurt Elster, Paul Reda, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-unofficial-shopify-podcast-kurt-elster-BqzDjoexMh1/">The Unofficial Shopify Podcast</a> (LS 51 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/1526d4e94e71467099811e3fbcb92e14/">Copywriting Decoded: How to Turn Copy into Conversions</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-04-03<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/1526d4e94e71467099811e3fbcb92e14/&notes=Copywriting Decoded: How to Turn Copy into Conversions">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-unofficial-shopify-podcast-kurt-elster-jfubC4Uesg0-BqzDjoexMh1.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>Why is copywriting so hard? It took me years to figure it out.</p>
<p>The answer is likely mindset. There are a few mental hurdles you need to get over if you're going to write effective web copy that converts.</p>
<p>(And you should, optimizing copy can do more for your conversion rate than any other tactic.)</p>
<p>To help us break it down, fellow podcaster David Garfinkel joins us.</p>
<p>David mentors business owners and professional copywriters to go from good to great! Many of his clients have created websites, sales letters, and ads that have made millions, both for themselves and others.</p>
<p>David's the author of the bestselling book &quot;Breakthrough Copywriting,&quot; and has written copy himself that has made millions of dollars. His all-time record was a sales letter for a six-person company that generated $40 million in sales. David also hosts the popular Copywriters Podcast.</p>
<h2>You'll Learn</h2>
<ul>
<li>If you’re new to copywriting, what are the key things you need to know to make your copy convert?</li>
<li>If you have copy that’s not converting now, what can you do to get it working?</li>
<li>If you have copy that’s converting and you’d like it to work better, what can you do to improve conversions?</li>
<li>What are some resources (free, as well as lower investment and higher investment) a marketer can use to become better at putting together copy that converts?</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Tune in for more details!</strong></p>
<h2>Resources</h2>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://amzn.to/2oPCR6B">Breakthrough Copywriting: How To Generate Quick Cash With The Written Word</a></li>
<li><a href="http://garfinkelcoaching.com/podcast">Copywriters Podcast</a></li>
<li><a href="http://highspeedcopywriting.com/">High Speed Copywriting (DVD and workbook seminar)</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.garfinkelcoaching.com/copy-critiques/">Have David critique your copy</a></li>
<li><a href="http://garfinkelcoaching.com/">Garfinkel Coaching</a></li>
</ul>
<h2>Share your thoughts</h2>
<ul>
<li>Ask a question in <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/UnofficialShopifyPodcast/">The Unofficial Shopify Podcast Facebook Group</a></li>
<li>Share this show on <a href="https://twitter.com/shopifypodcast">Twitter</a></li>
</ul>
<h2>Never miss an episode</h2>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/unofficial-shopify-podcast/id918602360">Subscribe on iTunes</a></li>
<li><a href="http://kurtelster.com/">Join Kurt's newsletter</a></li>
</ul>
<h2>Help the show</h2>
<ul>
<li>Leave an honest review on <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/unofficial-shopify-podcast/id918602360">iTunes</a>. Your ratings &amp; reviews help, and I read each one.</li>
<li><a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/unofficial-shopify-podcast/id918602360">Subscribe on iTunes</a></li>
</ul>
<h2>What's Kurt up to?</h2>
<ul>
<li>See our <a href="https://ethercycle.com/work/">recent work at Ethercycle</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqkCdtyY1d4">Take a ride</a> with Kurt on <a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/ethercycle">YouTube</a></li>
</ul>
<h2>Grow Your Store in 2018</h2>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://ethercycle.com/apply">Apply to work with Kurt</a> to grow your store.</li>
<li>Prefer to DIY? Read a free sample chapter of Kurt's book <em>Ecommerce Bootcamp</em>, absolutely free. Tell me where to send your sample at <a href="http://ecommerce-bootcamp.com/" title="Ecommerce Bootcamp - The Step-by-Step Shopify Marketing Playbook">ecommerce-bootcamp.com</a></li>
<li><a href="https://ethercycle.com/shopify-plus/">Learn Shopify Plus got that regular Shopify doesn’t?”</a></li>
</ul><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Kurt Elster, Paul Reda, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The Unofficial Shopify Podcast
Episode: Copywriting Decoded: How to Turn Copy into Conversions
Pub date: 2018-04-03

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/1526d4e94e71467099811e3fbcb92e14/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Kurt Elster, Paul Reda, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:08:24 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/1526d4e94e71467099811e3fbcb92e14/</guid>
            
            <author>Kurt Elster, Paul Reda</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/1526d4e94e71467099811e3fbcb92e14.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The Unofficial Shopify Podcast</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:40:39</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Kurt Elster, Paul Reda</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-unofficial-shopify-podcast-kurt-elster-pEeq_rDCmKW-BqzDjoexMh1.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>380: How to Become Good at Copywriting</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/26d2141b390e433392abc63f78dbd641</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-startup-chat-with-steli-and-hiten-steli-3V2GfWv_LrB/">The Startup Chat with Steli and Hiten</a> (LS 49 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/26d2141b390e433392abc63f78dbd641/">380: How to Become Good at Copywriting</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-01-18<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/26d2141b390e433392abc63f78dbd641/&notes=380: How to Become Good at Copywriting">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-startup-chat-with-steli-and-hiten-steli-ADrMyHWxiom-3V2GfWv_LrB.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p><span style="font-weight: 400;">In today’s episode of The Startup Chat, Steli and Hiten talk about copywriting and writing good copy for startups.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">When it comes to marketing your startup, your copywriting is one of the most critical elements that could make or break your campaign. But what is copywriting? It consists of all the content that marketers use to try to get people to take an action after reading or hearing them.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">In this episode, Steli and Hiten talk about what copywriting is, why it’s important, tips that can help you write better copy and much more.</span></p>
<p><b>Time Stamped Show Notes:</b></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">00:00 About today’s topic.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">00:47 Why this topic was chosen.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">01:46 Why copy is important.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">03:10 Why the copy you write is key to pulling people in.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">04:43 Tips for improving your copy.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">05:29 Why you should write copy with the customer in mind.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">06:00 What makes good copy.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">07:37 Examples of bad copy.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">08:36 Another example of bad copy.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">09:29 Why you should read your copy out loud.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">09:23 One tip that can help you to write better copy.</span></p>
<p><b>3 Key Points:</b></p>
<ul>
<li style="font-weight: 400;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">To me, copy is everything.</span></li>
<li style="font-weight: 400;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">You should write copy that a 5-year-old can read and understand.</span></li>
<li style="font-weight: 400;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">We are in a world were click bait, headlines still work.</span></li>
</ul>
<div class="transcript">
<p><b>[0:00:00]</b></p>
<p><b>Steli</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Hey everybody.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:00:01]</b></p>
<p><b>Hiten</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Sure.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:00:01]</b></p>
<p><b>Steli</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: This is Steli Efti and in today&#8217;s episode of the Startup Chat we want to talk about copywriting and good copy for startups. We just recorded an episode that was published before this one about how to optimize for sales when you&#8217;re a self-serviced product. We did touch a little bit on learning and mastering copy and copywriting there. I wanted to talk to you about this Hiten because I feel like copywriting has fallen from grace a little bit or maybe it&#8217;s just not as cool or hot of a topic, especially in SaaS and in startups. I feel like a lot of other topics in marketing have become much more popular, but I don&#8217;t see a lot of tips shared and oftentimes when I go and visit SaaS websites, I can just tell that this website, their whole focus was on beautiful design of the website, a lot of focus was &#8230; The copy was kind of like a secondary thing. It&#8217;s more the visual design and workflow of how a website or how landing pages are created that have become a lot more important, and the words themselves are not always as strong and as good as they could be. First of all I wanted to ask you if you have the same observation and then I wanted to just unpack the topic. What is even copywriting? What is good copy and how can people learn it and why it&#8217;s important for your startup.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:01:32]</b></p>
<p><b>Hiten</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Copy is everything and copy is everywhere. I think all marketing starts with content and copy. The same with even if you&#8217;re doing video, there&#8217;s content there, there&#8217;s copy there that you write, the script or whatever. So I think words are everywhere. The majority of humans know how to read words. So to me, copy is everything. I would say I&#8217;m a student of copy myself and writing and communication. Copy is communication is another way to think about it. I really prescribe to the philosophy that you should write content and copy that a five year old could read and understand. That rule is like, you could say, &#8220;But my product is really advanced,&#8221; or &#8220;My product sells to developers,&#8221; or something. Yeah, I get it. I totally get it, but can a five year old understand it? I would still ask you that because we are in a place in the world where clickbait headlines still work which are really pithy, right? And just pull you in. We are in a world where our attention is drawn to many different places so I&#8217;m sure if we looked at the stats, the amount of seconds you have on your website to pull someone in and capture their attention is probably getting less and less or has gotten less and less over time. So because of these reasons, the copy you write is actually the key to getting people pulled in and wanting to engage with your product, your site, your website, your business, whatever you&#8217;re doing. Think about even all the ads you see on Facebook and other places that you actually like and enjoy. A lot of it is very simple messages that are very direct and they really hit on something that you care about enough. So simple language, a five year old can understand it and copy that really is engaging, pulls people in and really hits on the problems they have or the challenges or the emotion you&#8217;re looking to evoke. That is done with simple copy.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:03:48]</b></p>
<p><b>Steli</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I love that. I love that framework. I think that for me, oftentimes it is understanding that the words you write and that you use, and this is true everywhere but I think in certain places because you are more restricted than in others &#8230; So a landing page or a homepage might have a lot more restrictions on how many words you&#8217;re going to end up using than a blog post where you could just decide to write up a massive article potentially. In general, I think one thing that a lot of times can lead to better copy and that a lot of people don&#8217;t use as a mind frame is to think of your copy as one part of an active dialogue between you and your prospect or your customer and actually think about what the customer would respond either verbally to you or in their mind. Oftentimes people don&#8217;t go through that exercise. They&#8217;re writing copy as if they were writing something, a speech, where you stand on a big podium and there&#8217;s hundreds of thousands of people and you&#8217;re just talking to a mic and say your prepared notes and the moment you&#8217;re done with your notes, you just run away and then people have to push a button, either yes or no or like or dislike or I sign up or I don&#8217;t sign up. I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a useful framework, although it might feel like a lot of properties online, you write something and many, many people will read it and you cannot really hear the response, but you should think about it more like a one-on-one meeting with a prospect or a customer. You sit down and you tell them some important things and you need to anticipate, when I say this is the value I can provide to you, what is the number one question that the prospect will have or objection to this or concern about it. When I tell them, &#8220;Please sign up here,&#8221; why wouldn&#8217;t they want to sign up? What would draw them away from this call to action? Just thinking about the responses and thinking about it more from a dialogue point of view versus a speech point of view can make a big difference in mind. And really distilling things down. To me, good copy oftentimes means distilling the truth down to its core essence, so using the least amount of words to communicate and have the highest potency of persuading somebody to take action or to follow your advice. So oftentimes when I look at copy, I think oftentimes we just write copy in a framework of what are all the things I need to say and we don&#8217;t really ask ourselves how can I say this in the shortest, more concise way possible. You said say it in a way that a five year old could understand it which is a beautiful framework. Then also asking, what should I say first and what should I say second? Because if you think about it like a dialogue, there&#8217;s a sequence that makes sense. There&#8217;s something you would say first and then something you would say second. There&#8217;s the most important message that you have and then there&#8217;s other nice to have messages. Just going through that exercise a little bit and thinking through it from the framework of having dialogues with people and anticipating their concerns, their confusions, what they think and what they need to know at what point in the conversation can be really powerful and is something that I think oftentimes we forget when we write copy.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:07:19]</b></p>
<p><b>Hiten</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah. It&#8217;s so easy to just want to say everything you want to say, then your copy gets long. It gets into more than a line or two. Things get really messy. The amount of sites that I go to where the copy is just hard to understand, has jargon, is really long, you can tell that they&#8217;re just trying to explain everything to you all at once. It&#8217;s ridiculous. I think that what they don&#8217;t realize is that people are there on your site and they&#8217;re there for a specific purpose and you&#8217;re just getting in the way with your copy. So if you can figure out how to say something very specific, that would be good. So just for fun I went to a site today, and right now, just a random site from Product Hunt and you know what they say at the top? It says literally, &#8220;The Simplest Way&#8221;.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:08:10]</b></p>
<p><b>Steli</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: &#8220;The Simplest Way&#8221;. That&#8217;s the entire-</span></p>
<p><b>[0:08:13]</b></p>
<p><b>Hiten</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: &#8220;The Simplest Way&#8221;. No, it says &#8220;The Simplest Way to Do &#8216;X&#8221;. Right?</span></p>
<p><b>[0:08:16]</b></p>
<p><b>Steli</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Okay, yeah.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:08:17]</b></p>
<p><b>Hiten</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: And I&#8217;m like, really? Is it the simplest way? And then it says, &#8220;No registration needed. Simply copy the code and embed it into your website.&#8221; I&#8217;m like, wow.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:08:26]</b></p>
<p><b>Steli</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: That&#8217;s not that simple.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:08:28]</b></p>
<p><b>Hiten</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah. It&#8217;s just like trying to make something simple that really isn&#8217;t and trying to make it sound simple of feel simple when it really isn&#8217;t and it says, &#8220;The Simplest Way&#8221;. So you know, it&#8217;s just some random site I picked up, right? And that&#8217;s how they pitch it. So it&#8217;s like mind-blowing to me that we&#8217;re expecting people to use our sites with copy like that. So here&#8217;s another example: I went to this site, focusmate.com. A random site, no relation to me. It was just from Product Hunt and it says, &#8220;Distraction-free productivity. Focusmate virtual coworking helps you get things done.&#8221; See, this is better. Not great, because I still don&#8217;t know what I&#8217;m going to get. I don&#8217;t know virtual coworking is, but that first part of distraction-free productivity? Okay, that got me. I want to know what that is. They pulled me in. They pulled me in so much I was willing to read the second sentence. After this though, I&#8217;m gone. I don&#8217;t know. I don&#8217;t need this. It&#8217;s also easy to screw it up even if you get it right, right? Because distraction-free productivity is exciting and the name focus makes me feel that, but then when you go deeper you&#8217;re just like, I wonder what this is about but I&#8217;m not interested in it enough to keep going.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:09:55]</b></p>
<p><b>Steli</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I love that. So here&#8217;s my tip, I think, for this episode. The one other tip is read your copy out loud and more importantly, have other people, random people, read your copy out loud. Oftentimes when you have somebody else, well, even when you read it yourself, sometimes you&#8217;ll realize that when you read things out loud that they don&#8217;t make sense or they are hard to read so you stumble and you have to restart the sentence multiple times or you read it wrong, right? Because the sentence is overly complicated or there&#8217;s words that are too hard to say. Whatever it is, reading it out loud yourself should always be something you check. But I find it beautiful when you have somebody else read your copy out loud and you observe their body and their facial expression, their body language and facial expressions. You will see people, if their eyes light up as they read things, if they smile as they read things, if they feel comfortable or if they frown because they have to focus because it&#8217;s so hard to read this shit or if they have a facial expression of confusion. If they read it and they seem to not understand what the end of the sentence is. So they finish it up and they give you that impression of, wait. Is this everything? What am I supposed to do now? Just reading somebody&#8217;s body language and tonality as they read your copy can give you all the clues if you&#8217;re copy is exciting and crystal clear and inspiring somebody to take action and to feel confident and have clarity or if you&#8217;re confusing people, if you&#8217;re giving people too much work because it&#8217;s really tiring to read your fucking copy because it&#8217;s so long and so complicated or if it&#8217;s confusing. Oftentimes we don&#8217;t go through that exercise. We write up some words, we design the look, we send it to somebody, that person, because we&#8217;re all very visual, usually just glances over the written words and just looks at the design and goes, &#8220;Yeah, that image isn&#8217;t cool and can we put that button more to the left and make it green?&#8221; The copy doesn&#8217;t get the love and the importance that it really needs to have maximum impact.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:12:15]</b></p>
<p><b>Hiten</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I couldn&#8217;t agree more. Read it or have someone read it out loud.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:12:18]</b></p>
<p><b>Steli</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Out loud. There you go. That&#8217;s it from us for this episode. We&#8217;ll hear all of you very soon.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:12:24]</b></p>
<p><b>Hiten</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Later.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:12:24]</b></p>
</div>
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<p>The post <a href="https://thestartupchat.com/ep380/">380: How to Become Good at Copywriting</a> appeared first on <a href="https://thestartupchat.com">The Startup Chat with Steli &amp; Hiten</a>.</p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Steli Efti & Hiten Shah: Serial Entrepreneurs, Sales & Marketing Experts, Startup Investors & Advisors, CEOs running multi million dollar SaaS Startups, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-startup-chat-with-steli-and-hiten-steli-3V2GfWv_LrB/">The Startup Chat with Steli and Hiten</a> (LS 49 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/26d2141b390e433392abc63f78dbd641/">380: How to Become Good at Copywriting</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-01-18<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/26d2141b390e433392abc63f78dbd641/&notes=380: How to Become Good at Copywriting">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-startup-chat-with-steli-and-hiten-steli-ADrMyHWxiom-3V2GfWv_LrB.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p><span style="font-weight: 400;">In today’s episode of The Startup Chat, Steli and Hiten talk about copywriting and writing good copy for startups.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">When it comes to marketing your startup, your copywriting is one of the most critical elements that could make or break your campaign. But what is copywriting? It consists of all the content that marketers use to try to get people to take an action after reading or hearing them.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">In this episode, Steli and Hiten talk about what copywriting is, why it’s important, tips that can help you write better copy and much more.</span></p>
<p><b>Time Stamped Show Notes:</b></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">00:00 About today’s topic.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">00:47 Why this topic was chosen.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">01:46 Why copy is important.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">03:10 Why the copy you write is key to pulling people in.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">04:43 Tips for improving your copy.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">05:29 Why you should write copy with the customer in mind.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">06:00 What makes good copy.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">07:37 Examples of bad copy.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">08:36 Another example of bad copy.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">09:29 Why you should read your copy out loud.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">09:23 One tip that can help you to write better copy.</span></p>
<p><b>3 Key Points:</b></p>
<ul>
<li style="font-weight: 400;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">To me, copy is everything.</span></li>
<li style="font-weight: 400;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">You should write copy that a 5-year-old can read and understand.</span></li>
<li style="font-weight: 400;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">We are in a world were click bait, headlines still work.</span></li>
</ul>
<div class="transcript">
<p><b>[0:00:00]</b></p>
<p><b>Steli</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Hey everybody.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:00:01]</b></p>
<p><b>Hiten</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Sure.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:00:01]</b></p>
<p><b>Steli</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: This is Steli Efti and in today&#8217;s episode of the Startup Chat we want to talk about copywriting and good copy for startups. We just recorded an episode that was published before this one about how to optimize for sales when you&#8217;re a self-serviced product. We did touch a little bit on learning and mastering copy and copywriting there. I wanted to talk to you about this Hiten because I feel like copywriting has fallen from grace a little bit or maybe it&#8217;s just not as cool or hot of a topic, especially in SaaS and in startups. I feel like a lot of other topics in marketing have become much more popular, but I don&#8217;t see a lot of tips shared and oftentimes when I go and visit SaaS websites, I can just tell that this website, their whole focus was on beautiful design of the website, a lot of focus was &#8230; The copy was kind of like a secondary thing. It&#8217;s more the visual design and workflow of how a website or how landing pages are created that have become a lot more important, and the words themselves are not always as strong and as good as they could be. First of all I wanted to ask you if you have the same observation and then I wanted to just unpack the topic. What is even copywriting? What is good copy and how can people learn it and why it&#8217;s important for your startup.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:01:32]</b></p>
<p><b>Hiten</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Copy is everything and copy is everywhere. I think all marketing starts with content and copy. The same with even if you&#8217;re doing video, there&#8217;s content there, there&#8217;s copy there that you write, the script or whatever. So I think words are everywhere. The majority of humans know how to read words. So to me, copy is everything. I would say I&#8217;m a student of copy myself and writing and communication. Copy is communication is another way to think about it. I really prescribe to the philosophy that you should write content and copy that a five year old could read and understand. That rule is like, you could say, &#8220;But my product is really advanced,&#8221; or &#8220;My product sells to developers,&#8221; or something. Yeah, I get it. I totally get it, but can a five year old understand it? I would still ask you that because we are in a place in the world where clickbait headlines still work which are really pithy, right? And just pull you in. We are in a world where our attention is drawn to many different places so I&#8217;m sure if we looked at the stats, the amount of seconds you have on your website to pull someone in and capture their attention is probably getting less and less or has gotten less and less over time. So because of these reasons, the copy you write is actually the key to getting people pulled in and wanting to engage with your product, your site, your website, your business, whatever you&#8217;re doing. Think about even all the ads you see on Facebook and other places that you actually like and enjoy. A lot of it is very simple messages that are very direct and they really hit on something that you care about enough. So simple language, a five year old can understand it and copy that really is engaging, pulls people in and really hits on the problems they have or the challenges or the emotion you&#8217;re looking to evoke. That is done with simple copy.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:03:48]</b></p>
<p><b>Steli</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I love that. I love that framework. I think that for me, oftentimes it is understanding that the words you write and that you use, and this is true everywhere but I think in certain places because you are more restricted than in others &#8230; So a landing page or a homepage might have a lot more restrictions on how many words you&#8217;re going to end up using than a blog post where you could just decide to write up a massive article potentially. In general, I think one thing that a lot of times can lead to better copy and that a lot of people don&#8217;t use as a mind frame is to think of your copy as one part of an active dialogue between you and your prospect or your customer and actually think about what the customer would respond either verbally to you or in their mind. Oftentimes people don&#8217;t go through that exercise. They&#8217;re writing copy as if they were writing something, a speech, where you stand on a big podium and there&#8217;s hundreds of thousands of people and you&#8217;re just talking to a mic and say your prepared notes and the moment you&#8217;re done with your notes, you just run away and then people have to push a button, either yes or no or like or dislike or I sign up or I don&#8217;t sign up. I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a useful framework, although it might feel like a lot of properties online, you write something and many, many people will read it and you cannot really hear the response, but you should think about it more like a one-on-one meeting with a prospect or a customer. You sit down and you tell them some important things and you need to anticipate, when I say this is the value I can provide to you, what is the number one question that the prospect will have or objection to this or concern about it. When I tell them, &#8220;Please sign up here,&#8221; why wouldn&#8217;t they want to sign up? What would draw them away from this call to action? Just thinking about the responses and thinking about it more from a dialogue point of view versus a speech point of view can make a big difference in mind. And really distilling things down. To me, good copy oftentimes means distilling the truth down to its core essence, so using the least amount of words to communicate and have the highest potency of persuading somebody to take action or to follow your advice. So oftentimes when I look at copy, I think oftentimes we just write copy in a framework of what are all the things I need to say and we don&#8217;t really ask ourselves how can I say this in the shortest, more concise way possible. You said say it in a way that a five year old could understand it which is a beautiful framework. Then also asking, what should I say first and what should I say second? Because if you think about it like a dialogue, there&#8217;s a sequence that makes sense. There&#8217;s something you would say first and then something you would say second. There&#8217;s the most important message that you have and then there&#8217;s other nice to have messages. Just going through that exercise a little bit and thinking through it from the framework of having dialogues with people and anticipating their concerns, their confusions, what they think and what they need to know at what point in the conversation can be really powerful and is something that I think oftentimes we forget when we write copy.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:07:19]</b></p>
<p><b>Hiten</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah. It&#8217;s so easy to just want to say everything you want to say, then your copy gets long. It gets into more than a line or two. Things get really messy. The amount of sites that I go to where the copy is just hard to understand, has jargon, is really long, you can tell that they&#8217;re just trying to explain everything to you all at once. It&#8217;s ridiculous. I think that what they don&#8217;t realize is that people are there on your site and they&#8217;re there for a specific purpose and you&#8217;re just getting in the way with your copy. So if you can figure out how to say something very specific, that would be good. So just for fun I went to a site today, and right now, just a random site from Product Hunt and you know what they say at the top? It says literally, &#8220;The Simplest Way&#8221;.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:08:10]</b></p>
<p><b>Steli</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: &#8220;The Simplest Way&#8221;. That&#8217;s the entire-</span></p>
<p><b>[0:08:13]</b></p>
<p><b>Hiten</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: &#8220;The Simplest Way&#8221;. No, it says &#8220;The Simplest Way to Do &#8216;X&#8221;. Right?</span></p>
<p><b>[0:08:16]</b></p>
<p><b>Steli</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Okay, yeah.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:08:17]</b></p>
<p><b>Hiten</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: And I&#8217;m like, really? Is it the simplest way? And then it says, &#8220;No registration needed. Simply copy the code and embed it into your website.&#8221; I&#8217;m like, wow.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:08:26]</b></p>
<p><b>Steli</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: That&#8217;s not that simple.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:08:28]</b></p>
<p><b>Hiten</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah. It&#8217;s just like trying to make something simple that really isn&#8217;t and trying to make it sound simple of feel simple when it really isn&#8217;t and it says, &#8220;The Simplest Way&#8221;. So you know, it&#8217;s just some random site I picked up, right? And that&#8217;s how they pitch it. So it&#8217;s like mind-blowing to me that we&#8217;re expecting people to use our sites with copy like that. So here&#8217;s another example: I went to this site, focusmate.com. A random site, no relation to me. It was just from Product Hunt and it says, &#8220;Distraction-free productivity. Focusmate virtual coworking helps you get things done.&#8221; See, this is better. Not great, because I still don&#8217;t know what I&#8217;m going to get. I don&#8217;t know virtual coworking is, but that first part of distraction-free productivity? Okay, that got me. I want to know what that is. They pulled me in. They pulled me in so much I was willing to read the second sentence. After this though, I&#8217;m gone. I don&#8217;t know. I don&#8217;t need this. It&#8217;s also easy to screw it up even if you get it right, right? Because distraction-free productivity is exciting and the name focus makes me feel that, but then when you go deeper you&#8217;re just like, I wonder what this is about but I&#8217;m not interested in it enough to keep going.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:09:55]</b></p>
<p><b>Steli</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I love that. So here&#8217;s my tip, I think, for this episode. The one other tip is read your copy out loud and more importantly, have other people, random people, read your copy out loud. Oftentimes when you have somebody else, well, even when you read it yourself, sometimes you&#8217;ll realize that when you read things out loud that they don&#8217;t make sense or they are hard to read so you stumble and you have to restart the sentence multiple times or you read it wrong, right? Because the sentence is overly complicated or there&#8217;s words that are too hard to say. Whatever it is, reading it out loud yourself should always be something you check. But I find it beautiful when you have somebody else read your copy out loud and you observe their body and their facial expression, their body language and facial expressions. You will see people, if their eyes light up as they read things, if they smile as they read things, if they feel comfortable or if they frown because they have to focus because it&#8217;s so hard to read this shit or if they have a facial expression of confusion. If they read it and they seem to not understand what the end of the sentence is. So they finish it up and they give you that impression of, wait. Is this everything? What am I supposed to do now? Just reading somebody&#8217;s body language and tonality as they read your copy can give you all the clues if you&#8217;re copy is exciting and crystal clear and inspiring somebody to take action and to feel confident and have clarity or if you&#8217;re confusing people, if you&#8217;re giving people too much work because it&#8217;s really tiring to read your fucking copy because it&#8217;s so long and so complicated or if it&#8217;s confusing. Oftentimes we don&#8217;t go through that exercise. We write up some words, we design the look, we send it to somebody, that person, because we&#8217;re all very visual, usually just glances over the written words and just looks at the design and goes, &#8220;Yeah, that image isn&#8217;t cool and can we put that button more to the left and make it green?&#8221; The copy doesn&#8217;t get the love and the importance that it really needs to have maximum impact.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:12:15]</b></p>
<p><b>Hiten</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I couldn&#8217;t agree more. Read it or have someone read it out loud.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:12:18]</b></p>
<p><b>Steli</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Out loud. There you go. That&#8217;s it from us for this episode. We&#8217;ll hear all of you very soon.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:12:24]</b></p>
<p><b>Hiten</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Later.</span></p>
<p><b>[0:12:24]</b></p>
</div>
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<div></div>
<p>The post <a href="https://thestartupchat.com/ep380/">380: How to Become Good at Copywriting</a> appeared first on <a href="https://thestartupchat.com">The Startup Chat with Steli &amp; Hiten</a>.</p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Steli Efti & Hiten Shah: Serial Entrepreneurs, Sales & Marketing Experts, Startup Investors & Advisors, CEOs running multi million dollar SaaS Startups, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The Startup Chat with Steli and Hiten
Episode: 380: How to Become Good at Copywriting
Pub date: 2019-01-18

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/26d2141b390e433392abc63f78dbd641/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Steli Efti & Hiten Shah: Serial Entrepreneurs, Sales & Marketing Experts, Startup Investors & Advisors, CEOs running multi million dollar SaaS Startups, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:08:15 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/26d2141b390e433392abc63f78dbd641/</guid>
            
            <author>Steli Efti &amp; Hiten Shah: Serial Entrepreneurs, Sales &amp; Marketing Experts, Startup Investors &amp; Advisors, CEOs running multi million dollar SaaS Startups</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/26d2141b390e433392abc63f78dbd641.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The Startup Chat with Steli and Hiten</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration></itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Steli Efti &amp; Hiten Shah: Serial Entrepreneurs, Sales &amp; Marketing Experts, Startup Investors &amp; Advisors, CEOs running multi million dollar SaaS Startups</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-startup-chat-with-steli-and-hiten-steli-Wkm3P0wJbIZ-3V2GfWv_LrB.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>178 - How to Build an Unforgettable Brand: 3 Copywriting Secrets from the Irreverent Muzzle</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/834ffb3fd476420ba359f83a3066e99b</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-marie-forleo-podcast-marie-forleo-GSmlFABTjn1/">The Marie Forleo Podcast</a> (LS 63 &middot; TOP 0.1% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/834ffb3fd476420ba359f83a3066e99b/">178 - How to Build an Unforgettable Brand: 3 Copywriting Secrets from the Irreverent Muzzle</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-11-05<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/834ffb3fd476420ba359f83a3066e99b/&notes=178 - How to Build an Unforgettable Brand: 3 Copywriting Secrets from the Irreverent Muzzle">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-marie-forleo-podcast-marie-forleo-VjRn7PEwCJo-GSmlFABTjn1.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>If you want to create a brand people will never forget, sometimes you gotta stop giving AF and start taking a stand. Today I'm bringing back one of my favorite segments, Love Your Branding Baby, to highlight a company that's doing exactly that. Muzzle has been called "offensive" by more than one angry tweeter, but they've also taken the internet by storm thanks to their hilarious one-page website. I'll show you 3 smart strategies they used to create an unforgettable brand and how you can apply them in your business — no matter what you sell.</p> <p><a href="https://www.marieforleo.com/blog/unforgettable-brand-secrets-muzzle"> https://www.marieforleo.com/blog/unforgettable-brand-secrets-muzzle</a></p> <p>Your job isn't to make everyone happy, it's to stay true to yourself. @MarieForleo</p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Marie Forleo, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-marie-forleo-podcast-marie-forleo-GSmlFABTjn1/">The Marie Forleo Podcast</a> (LS 63 &middot; TOP 0.1% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/834ffb3fd476420ba359f83a3066e99b/">178 - How to Build an Unforgettable Brand: 3 Copywriting Secrets from the Irreverent Muzzle</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-11-05<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/834ffb3fd476420ba359f83a3066e99b/&notes=178 - How to Build an Unforgettable Brand: 3 Copywriting Secrets from the Irreverent Muzzle">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-marie-forleo-podcast-marie-forleo-VjRn7PEwCJo-GSmlFABTjn1.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>If you want to create a brand people will never forget, sometimes you gotta stop giving AF and start taking a stand. Today I'm bringing back one of my favorite segments, Love Your Branding Baby, to highlight a company that's doing exactly that. Muzzle has been called "offensive" by more than one angry tweeter, but they've also taken the internet by storm thanks to their hilarious one-page website. I'll show you 3 smart strategies they used to create an unforgettable brand and how you can apply them in your business — no matter what you sell.</p> <p><a href="https://www.marieforleo.com/blog/unforgettable-brand-secrets-muzzle"> https://www.marieforleo.com/blog/unforgettable-brand-secrets-muzzle</a></p> <p>Your job isn't to make everyone happy, it's to stay true to yourself. @MarieForleo</p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Marie Forleo, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The Marie Forleo Podcast
Episode: 178 - How to Build an Unforgettable Brand: 3 Copywriting Secrets from the Irreverent Muzzle
Pub date: 2019-11-05

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/834ffb3fd476420ba359f83a3066e99b/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Marie Forleo, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:07:05 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/834ffb3fd476420ba359f83a3066e99b/</guid>
            
            <author>Marie Forleo</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/834ffb3fd476420ba359f83a3066e99b.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The Marie Forleo Podcast</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:07:27</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Marie Forleo</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-marie-forleo-podcast-marie-forleo-NIRlkOQ3-Az-GSmlFABTjn1.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>229: Mastering Copywriting and Finding Your Flow With Arman Assadi of Project EVO</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/cd06548c8013488eb520a1557cc5a31c</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-foundr-podcast-with-nathan-chan-foundr-Hi9D2U-axfz/">The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan</a> (LS 58 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/cd06548c8013488eb520a1557cc5a31c/">229: Mastering Copywriting and Finding Your Flow With Arman Assadi of Project EVO</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-12-11<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/cd06548c8013488eb520a1557cc5a31c/&notes=229: Mastering Copywriting and Finding Your Flow With Arman Assadi of Project EVO">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-foundr-podcast-with-nathan-chan-foundr-BRDh6p5lZrU-Hi9D2U-axfz.256x256.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>NEW COURSE ALERT: Entrepreneur, we wanted you to be the first to know that we’ve collaborated with Arman Assadi to bring you our <a href="https://foundr.com/copywriting">brand new copywriting course</a>. Learn the copywriting secrets behind <em>11 seven-figure product launches</em>, taught by Arman himself.</p><p>Arman’s broken it down into a 10-step framework that he’s proven with his clients time and time again. He’s even going to give you templates, formulas, and how-to guides so you can start converting customers like crazy.</p><p>If you’re tired of seeing ZERO sales for all the hard work you’ve put into your amazing product—then you NEED to learn the power of copywriting. We’re opening the doors to this course soon for a limited time only, and we want to see you there. Be sure to <a href="https://foundr.com/copywriting">get on the FREE waitlist</a> so you don’t miss it!</p><p>Key Takeaways</p><ul>
<li>The “crisis of meaning” that drove Assadi to leave his job at Google, book a trip to Cuba, and pursue freedom as a solopreneur</li>
<li>How Assadi became a self-taught copywriter and began working with the likes of Neil Patel, Lewis Howes, Jason Silva, and Lori Harder</li>
<li>What you should (and shouldn’t) do if you want to find your unique voice as a copywriter</li>
<li>The key to writing high-converting copy and why every entrepreneur should learn the basics</li>
<li>The story behind Assadi’s latest business and how it created the most-funded planner in crowdfunding history: EVO Planner</li>
<li>What’s next for Project EVO and how it’s helping entrepreneurs and creatives find fulfillment in their work</li>
</ul><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Foundr Media, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-foundr-podcast-with-nathan-chan-foundr-Hi9D2U-axfz/">The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan</a> (LS 58 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/cd06548c8013488eb520a1557cc5a31c/">229: Mastering Copywriting and Finding Your Flow With Arman Assadi of Project EVO</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-12-11<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/cd06548c8013488eb520a1557cc5a31c/&notes=229: Mastering Copywriting and Finding Your Flow With Arman Assadi of Project EVO">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-foundr-podcast-with-nathan-chan-foundr-BRDh6p5lZrU-Hi9D2U-axfz.256x256.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>NEW COURSE ALERT: Entrepreneur, we wanted you to be the first to know that we’ve collaborated with Arman Assadi to bring you our <a href="https://foundr.com/copywriting">brand new copywriting course</a>. Learn the copywriting secrets behind <em>11 seven-figure product launches</em>, taught by Arman himself.</p><p>Arman’s broken it down into a 10-step framework that he’s proven with his clients time and time again. He’s even going to give you templates, formulas, and how-to guides so you can start converting customers like crazy.</p><p>If you’re tired of seeing ZERO sales for all the hard work you’ve put into your amazing product—then you NEED to learn the power of copywriting. We’re opening the doors to this course soon for a limited time only, and we want to see you there. Be sure to <a href="https://foundr.com/copywriting">get on the FREE waitlist</a> so you don’t miss it!</p><p>Key Takeaways</p><ul>
<li>The “crisis of meaning” that drove Assadi to leave his job at Google, book a trip to Cuba, and pursue freedom as a solopreneur</li>
<li>How Assadi became a self-taught copywriter and began working with the likes of Neil Patel, Lewis Howes, Jason Silva, and Lori Harder</li>
<li>What you should (and shouldn’t) do if you want to find your unique voice as a copywriter</li>
<li>The key to writing high-converting copy and why every entrepreneur should learn the basics</li>
<li>The story behind Assadi’s latest business and how it created the most-funded planner in crowdfunding history: EVO Planner</li>
<li>What’s next for Project EVO and how it’s helping entrepreneurs and creatives find fulfillment in their work</li>
</ul><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Foundr Media, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan
Episode: 229: Mastering Copywriting and Finding Your Flow With Arman Assadi of Project EVO
Pub date: 2018-12-11

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/cd06548c8013488eb520a1557cc5a31c/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Foundr Media, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:06:52 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/cd06548c8013488eb520a1557cc5a31c/</guid>
            
            <author>Foundr Media</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/cd06548c8013488eb520a1557cc5a31c.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>01:09:32</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Foundr Media</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-foundr-podcast-with-nathan-chan-foundr-5fQcg1CrPUw-Hi9D2U-axfz.256x256.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>The Art of Copywriting: How to Write Better Captions and Tell Stories that Get Engagement</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/0b36b2503f794e959df76b1d8b54efea</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-science-of-social-media-buffer-HeRVwvFkcjG/">The Science of Social Media</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/0b36b2503f794e959df76b1d8b54efea/">The Art of Copywriting: How to Write Better Captions and Tell Stories that Get Engagement</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-03-18<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/0b36b2503f794e959df76b1d8b54efea/&notes=The Art of Copywriting: How to Write Better Captions and Tell Stories that Get Engagement">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-science-of-social-media-buffer-jvZGoF3-sup-HeRVwvFkcjG.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>What you’re trying to do, when you tell a story, is to write about an event in your life that made you feel some particular way. And what you’re trying to do, when you tell a story, is to get the audience to have that same feeling.</p>
<p>While we don't typically associate the art of copywriting with social media captions, the two are deeply intertwined.</p>
<p>A really good caption informs us about the things we cannot immediately see and encourages us to look at an image or video more closely.</p>
<p>From specific writing techniques to the psychology behind bringing your stories and captions to life, you’ll leave today’s episode with several new copywriting tactics and strategies to try.</p>
<p><strong>Read the Show Notes:</strong></p>
<p><a href="https://buffer.com/resources/?p=24002&amp;preview=true" target="wp-preview-24002">https://buffer.com/resources/<strong>the-art-of-copywriting</strong></a></p>
<p><strong>About the Show:</strong></p>
<p>The <a href="https://buffer.com/podcast" target="_blank"><strong>Science of Social Media</strong></a> is your weekly sandbox for social media stories, insights, experimentation, and inspiration. Every Monday (and sometimes more) we share the most cutting-edge social media marketing strategies from brands and influencers in every industry. If you're a social media team of one, business owner, marketer, or someone simply interested in social media marketing, you're sure to find something useful in each episode. &nbsp;It's our hope that you'll join our 27,000+ listeners each week and rock your social media channels as a result!</p>
<p>The Science of Social Media is proudly made <a href="https://buffer.com/" target="_blank"><strong>by the Buffer team</strong></a>. Feel free to <a href="mailto:hello@buffer.com" target="_blank"><strong>get in touch with us</strong></a> for any thoughts, ideas, or feedback.</p>
<p>We'd love for you to check out the detailed show notes at <a href="http://www.buffer.com/podcast" target="_blank"><strong>www.buffer.com/podcast</strong></a></p>
<p>Check us out on Instagram - <a href="http://www.instagram.com/buffer" target="_blank"><strong>www.instagram.com/buffer</strong></a></p>
<p>Check us out on Facebook - <a href="http://www.facebook.com/bufferapp" target="_blank"><strong>www.facebook.com/bufferapp</strong></a>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Check us out on Twitter - <a href="http://www.twitter.com/buffer" target="_blank"><strong>www.twitter.com/buffer</strong></a></p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Buffer, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-science-of-social-media-buffer-HeRVwvFkcjG/">The Science of Social Media</a> (LS 52 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/0b36b2503f794e959df76b1d8b54efea/">The Art of Copywriting: How to Write Better Captions and Tell Stories that Get Engagement</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-03-18<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/0b36b2503f794e959df76b1d8b54efea/&notes=The Art of Copywriting: How to Write Better Captions and Tell Stories that Get Engagement">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-science-of-social-media-buffer-jvZGoF3-sup-HeRVwvFkcjG.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>What you’re trying to do, when you tell a story, is to write about an event in your life that made you feel some particular way. And what you’re trying to do, when you tell a story, is to get the audience to have that same feeling.</p>
<p>While we don't typically associate the art of copywriting with social media captions, the two are deeply intertwined.</p>
<p>A really good caption informs us about the things we cannot immediately see and encourages us to look at an image or video more closely.</p>
<p>From specific writing techniques to the psychology behind bringing your stories and captions to life, you’ll leave today’s episode with several new copywriting tactics and strategies to try.</p>
<p><strong>Read the Show Notes:</strong></p>
<p><a href="https://buffer.com/resources/?p=24002&amp;preview=true" target="wp-preview-24002">https://buffer.com/resources/<strong>the-art-of-copywriting</strong></a></p>
<p><strong>About the Show:</strong></p>
<p>The <a href="https://buffer.com/podcast" target="_blank"><strong>Science of Social Media</strong></a> is your weekly sandbox for social media stories, insights, experimentation, and inspiration. Every Monday (and sometimes more) we share the most cutting-edge social media marketing strategies from brands and influencers in every industry. If you're a social media team of one, business owner, marketer, or someone simply interested in social media marketing, you're sure to find something useful in each episode. &nbsp;It's our hope that you'll join our 27,000+ listeners each week and rock your social media channels as a result!</p>
<p>The Science of Social Media is proudly made <a href="https://buffer.com/" target="_blank"><strong>by the Buffer team</strong></a>. Feel free to <a href="mailto:hello@buffer.com" target="_blank"><strong>get in touch with us</strong></a> for any thoughts, ideas, or feedback.</p>
<p>We'd love for you to check out the detailed show notes at <a href="http://www.buffer.com/podcast" target="_blank"><strong>www.buffer.com/podcast</strong></a></p>
<p>Check us out on Instagram - <a href="http://www.instagram.com/buffer" target="_blank"><strong>www.instagram.com/buffer</strong></a></p>
<p>Check us out on Facebook - <a href="http://www.facebook.com/bufferapp" target="_blank"><strong>www.facebook.com/bufferapp</strong></a>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Check us out on Twitter - <a href="http://www.twitter.com/buffer" target="_blank"><strong>www.twitter.com/buffer</strong></a></p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Buffer, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The Science of Social Media
Episode: The Art of Copywriting: How to Write Better Captions and Tell Stories that Get Engagement
Pub date: 2019-03-18

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/0b36b2503f794e959df76b1d8b54efea/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Buffer, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:06:37 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/0b36b2503f794e959df76b1d8b54efea/</guid>
            
            <author>Buffer</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/0b36b2503f794e959df76b1d8b54efea.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The Science of Social Media</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:11:39</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Buffer</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-science-of-social-media-buffer-W7O3-T9ZXch-HeRVwvFkcjG.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>Episode 178: A Copywriting Guide for Sales Pages, Videos and Podcasts (FS178)</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/900b03f5a01e4f1fa6688e99c6a6fd88</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-fizzle-show-fizzleco-SZUtwu9scGe/">The Fizzle Show</a> (LS 55 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/900b03f5a01e4f1fa6688e99c6a6fd88/">Episode 178: A Copywriting Guide for Sales Pages, Videos and Podcasts (FS178)</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2016-09-01<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/900b03f5a01e4f1fa6688e99c6a6fd88/&notes=Episode 178: A Copywriting Guide for Sales Pages, Videos and Podcasts (FS178)">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-fizzle-show-fizzleco-Z91EP2MXJHU-SZUtwu9scGe.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><pre><code>    &lt;p&gt;If you want to write things that inspire action —&amp;nbsp;web sales pages that effectively sell your product, emails that readers will click on and share, etc. —&amp;nbsp;this article is for you. Show Notes: &lt;a href=&quot;https://fizzle.co/sparkline/writing-copy-for-web&quot;&gt;https://fizzle.co/sparkline/writing-copy-for-web&lt;/a&gt; I repeat: if you want to make things on the internet that work, if you want to publish webpages and videos and podcasts and emails into the world that get results, you’re in the right place. Because in this episode we’re going to talk about COPYWRITING… ugh, sounds boring maybe? nope, there is an art form here that I’ll bet, if you listen to this show, you’ll see completely differently afterwards. Along with this show is a free guide and article which you can find at Fizzleshow.co/178&lt;/p&gt;
</code></pre><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from fizzle.co, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-fizzle-show-fizzleco-SZUtwu9scGe/">The Fizzle Show</a> (LS 55 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/900b03f5a01e4f1fa6688e99c6a6fd88/">Episode 178: A Copywriting Guide for Sales Pages, Videos and Podcasts (FS178)</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2016-09-01<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/900b03f5a01e4f1fa6688e99c6a6fd88/&notes=Episode 178: A Copywriting Guide for Sales Pages, Videos and Podcasts (FS178)">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-fizzle-show-fizzleco-Z91EP2MXJHU-SZUtwu9scGe.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><pre><code>    &lt;p&gt;If you want to write things that inspire action —&amp;nbsp;web sales pages that effectively sell your product, emails that readers will click on and share, etc. —&amp;nbsp;this article is for you. Show Notes: &lt;a href=&quot;https://fizzle.co/sparkline/writing-copy-for-web&quot;&gt;https://fizzle.co/sparkline/writing-copy-for-web&lt;/a&gt; I repeat: if you want to make things on the internet that work, if you want to publish webpages and videos and podcasts and emails into the world that get results, you’re in the right place. Because in this episode we’re going to talk about COPYWRITING… ugh, sounds boring maybe? nope, there is an art form here that I’ll bet, if you listen to this show, you’ll see completely differently afterwards. Along with this show is a free guide and article which you can find at Fizzleshow.co/178&lt;/p&gt;
</code></pre><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from fizzle.co, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The Fizzle Show
Episode: Episode 178: A Copywriting Guide for Sales Pages, Videos and Podcasts (FS178)
Pub date: 2016-09-01

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/900b03f5a01e4f1fa6688e99c6a6fd88/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from fizzle.co, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:04:59 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/900b03f5a01e4f1fa6688e99c6a6fd88/</guid>
            
            <author>fizzle.co</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/900b03f5a01e4f1fa6688e99c6a6fd88.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The Fizzle Show</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:58:50</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>fizzle.co</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-fizzle-show-fizzleco-geGRa2SZ1n5-SZUtwu9scGe.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>Episode 317: Email Hospitality: Copywriting A Personable Email Welcome Series (FS317)</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/f7598253427341ea97966fcb710b6e5c</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-fizzle-show-fizzleco-SZUtwu9scGe/">The Fizzle Show</a> (LS 55 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/f7598253427341ea97966fcb710b6e5c/">Episode 317: Email Hospitality: Copywriting A Personable Email Welcome Series (FS317)</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-04-30<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/f7598253427341ea97966fcb710b6e5c/&notes=Episode 317: Email Hospitality: Copywriting A Personable Email Welcome Series (FS317)">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-fizzle-show-fizzleco-Z91EP2MXJHU-SZUtwu9scGe.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>Shownotes: <a href="http://fizzleshow.com/317" rel="nofollow">http://fizzleshow.com/317</a></p>

<p>How do we create our ultimate email welcome series? What are the most most important elements and rules that help us connect with new audience members and keep them coming back? Is email still as relevant as it once was?</p>

<p>The answer is yes, the stats show that email is more used now than ever before. Most of us know that an email welcome series can go a long way, but that does not mean that concocting great email copy and content is a common skill.   </p>

<p>In this episode, we talk about how to craft that vital first emailed contact, why templates don't matter so much and a few rules that can keep your emails out of the spam folder. We are trying to get you thinking about who you are writing to and connecting meaningfully with them!</p>

<p>Today on the show, we are joined by Barrett Brooks, Marketing Lead at ConvertKit and certified email badass! He is driven by the belief that business is one of the most powerful forces for good in the world and this really shows in his and ConvertKit's increasingly blazing success rate.</p>

<p>We also talk about how to get receivers' attention and your emails opened right away in the right way, the usefulness of questions and emojis, forming the body of an email and finding the pillar posts of your business. For all of this, join us today, Fizzlers!</p>

<p>Key Points From This Episode:</p>

<p>• A quick update from Barrett Brooks, ConvertKit and the world of email. [0:07:18.6]<br />
• The stable importance of an email welcome sequence. [0:12:02.3]<br />
• Current marketing and how people find your company online. [0:13:42.7]<br />
• The main objective of an email welcome series. [0:17:30.1]<br />
• Why Luke Skywalker took very little notice of Yoda at first. [0:25:35.6]<br />
• Symptoms, treatments and long term solutions. [0:27:31.2]<br />
• Gaining trust through email copywriting, dos and don'ts. [0:32:55.6]<br />
• Personalization and segmenting your email list by interests. [0:43:30.4]<br />
• The three things you can do to get your copywriting up to scratch. [0:48:06.2]<br />
• Summarizing the mains tenants of creating your best welcome series. [0:52:00.8]<br />
• Compiling a greatest hits of content for your business. [0:55:03.5]<br />
• And much more!</p>

<p>Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:</p>

<p>• Fizzle — <a href="https://fizzle.co/" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/</a><br />
• Gusto — <a href="http://gusto.com/fizzle" rel="nofollow">http://gusto.com/fizzle</a><br />
• ConvertKit — <a href="http://convertkit.com/fizzle" rel="nofollow">http://convertkit.com/fizzle</a> <br />
• Discover.bot — <a href="https://discover.bot/fizzle" rel="nofollow">https://discover.bot/fizzle</a><br />
• Barrett Brooks — <a href="https://convertkit.com/author/barrettbrooks/" rel="nofollow">https://convertkit.com/author/barrettbrooks/</a><br />
• ConvertKit — <a href="https://convertkit.com" rel="nofollow">https://convertkit.com</a><br />
• Wall Street Journal — <a href="https://www.wsj.com" rel="nofollow">https://www.wsj.com</a><br />
• StoryBrand — <a href="https://storybrand.com" rel="nofollow">https://storybrand.com</a><br />
• Fizzle 80/20 Copywriting Guide — <a href="https://fizzle.co/sparkline/writing-copy-for-web" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/sparkline/writing-copy-for-web</a> <br />
• Ultimate Welcome Series — <a href="https://app.fizzle.co/library/ultimate-welcome-email" rel="nofollow">https://app.fizzle.co/library/ultimate-welcome-email</a><br />
• Shark Tank — <a href="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1442550/" rel="nofollow">https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1442550/</a><br />
• Dragon's Den — <a href="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443370/" rel="nofollow">https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443370/</a><br />
• Star Wars — <a href="https://www.starwars.com" rel="nofollow">https://www.starwars.com</a><br />
• Terence McKenna — <a href="https://medium.com/the-mission/unconventional-inspiration-the-best-of-terence-mckenna-5040385a69a2" rel="nofollow">https://medium.com/the-mission/unconventional-inspiration-the-best-of-terence-mckenna-5040385a69a2</a><br />
• Career Renegade — <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Career-Renegade-Great-Living-Doing/dp/0767927419" rel="nofollow">https://www.amazon.com/Career-Renegade-Great-Living-Doing/dp/0767927419</a><br />
• Copy Hackers — <a href="https://copyhackers.com" rel="nofollow">https://copyhackers.com</a><br />
• Justin Jackson — <a href="https://justinjackson.ca" rel="nofollow">https://justinjackson.ca</a><br />
• Pat Flynn — <a href="https://www.smartpassiveincome.com" rel="nofollow">https://www.smartpassiveincome.com</a><br />
• Kickstarter — <a href="https://www.kickstarter.com" rel="nofollow">https://www.kickstarter.com</a><br />
• Fizzle Roadmap — <a href="https://fizzle.co/sparkline/small-business-roadmap-1-clarity" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/sparkline/small-business-roadmap-1-clarity</a><br />
• Fizzle on Twitter — <a href="https://twitter.com/fizzle" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/fizzle</a><br />
• Fizzle Just Ship It Challenge — <a href="https://app.fizzle.co/just-ship-it-challenge" rel="nofollow">https://app.fizzle.co/just-ship-it-challenge</a><br />
• Fizzle Try 5 — <a href="http://fizzle.co/try5" rel="nofollow">http://fizzle.co/try5</a> <br />
• Courage and Clarity — <a href="https://www.courageandclarity.com/" rel="nofollow">https://www.courageandclarity.com/</a><br />
• Steph Crowder on Twitter — <a href="https://twitter.com/stephcrowder_?lang=en" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/stephcrowder_?lang=en</a><br />
• Corbett Barr on Twitter — <a href="https://twitter.com/CorbettBarr" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/CorbettBarr</a> <br />
• Chase Reeves on Twitter — <a href="https://twitter.com/chase_reeves" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/chase_reeves</a><br />
• Fizzle Sparkline — <a href="https://fizzle.co/sparkline" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/sparkline</a><br />
• Fizzle Goals Course — <a href="https://fizzle.co/courses/goals" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/courses/goals</a><br />
• Fizzle Journaling Course — <a href="https://fizzle.co/courses/journal" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/courses/journal</a><br />
• Fizzle Essentials of Web Design Course — <a href="https://fizzle.co/library/essentials-of-website-design-for-business-builders" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/library/essentials-of-website-design-for-business-builders</a><br />
• Fizzle Website Tune Up Curse — <a href="https://fizzle.co/courses/tuneup" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/courses/tuneup</a><br />
• Start A Blog That Matters Course — <a href="https://fizzle.co/start-a-blog-that-matters" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/start-a-blog-that-matters</a><br />
• Fizzle Toolkit — <a href="https://fizzle.co/toolkit" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/toolkit</a><br />
• Fizzle Craft + Commerce — <a href="https://fizzle.co/sparkline/craft-commerce" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/sparkline/craft-commerce</a><br />
• Fizzle Project Management for Entrepreneurs — <a href="https://fizzle.co/sparkline/project-management-for-entrepreneurs" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/sparkline/project-management-for-entrepreneurs</a><br />
• Fizzle Hosting — <a href="https://fizzle.co/hosting" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/hosting</a></p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from fizzle.co, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-fizzle-show-fizzleco-SZUtwu9scGe/">The Fizzle Show</a> (LS 55 &middot; TOP 0.5% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/f7598253427341ea97966fcb710b6e5c/">Episode 317: Email Hospitality: Copywriting A Personable Email Welcome Series (FS317)</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-04-30<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/f7598253427341ea97966fcb710b6e5c/&notes=Episode 317: Email Hospitality: Copywriting A Personable Email Welcome Series (FS317)">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-fizzle-show-fizzleco-Z91EP2MXJHU-SZUtwu9scGe.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>Shownotes: <a href="http://fizzleshow.com/317" rel="nofollow">http://fizzleshow.com/317</a></p>

<p>How do we create our ultimate email welcome series? What are the most most important elements and rules that help us connect with new audience members and keep them coming back? Is email still as relevant as it once was?</p>

<p>The answer is yes, the stats show that email is more used now than ever before. Most of us know that an email welcome series can go a long way, but that does not mean that concocting great email copy and content is a common skill.   </p>

<p>In this episode, we talk about how to craft that vital first emailed contact, why templates don't matter so much and a few rules that can keep your emails out of the spam folder. We are trying to get you thinking about who you are writing to and connecting meaningfully with them!</p>

<p>Today on the show, we are joined by Barrett Brooks, Marketing Lead at ConvertKit and certified email badass! He is driven by the belief that business is one of the most powerful forces for good in the world and this really shows in his and ConvertKit's increasingly blazing success rate.</p>

<p>We also talk about how to get receivers' attention and your emails opened right away in the right way, the usefulness of questions and emojis, forming the body of an email and finding the pillar posts of your business. For all of this, join us today, Fizzlers!</p>

<p>Key Points From This Episode:</p>

<p>• A quick update from Barrett Brooks, ConvertKit and the world of email. [0:07:18.6]<br />
• The stable importance of an email welcome sequence. [0:12:02.3]<br />
• Current marketing and how people find your company online. [0:13:42.7]<br />
• The main objective of an email welcome series. [0:17:30.1]<br />
• Why Luke Skywalker took very little notice of Yoda at first. [0:25:35.6]<br />
• Symptoms, treatments and long term solutions. [0:27:31.2]<br />
• Gaining trust through email copywriting, dos and don'ts. [0:32:55.6]<br />
• Personalization and segmenting your email list by interests. [0:43:30.4]<br />
• The three things you can do to get your copywriting up to scratch. [0:48:06.2]<br />
• Summarizing the mains tenants of creating your best welcome series. [0:52:00.8]<br />
• Compiling a greatest hits of content for your business. [0:55:03.5]<br />
• And much more!</p>

<p>Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:</p>

<p>• Fizzle — <a href="https://fizzle.co/" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/</a><br />
• Gusto — <a href="http://gusto.com/fizzle" rel="nofollow">http://gusto.com/fizzle</a><br />
• ConvertKit — <a href="http://convertkit.com/fizzle" rel="nofollow">http://convertkit.com/fizzle</a> <br />
• Discover.bot — <a href="https://discover.bot/fizzle" rel="nofollow">https://discover.bot/fizzle</a><br />
• Barrett Brooks — <a href="https://convertkit.com/author/barrettbrooks/" rel="nofollow">https://convertkit.com/author/barrettbrooks/</a><br />
• ConvertKit — <a href="https://convertkit.com" rel="nofollow">https://convertkit.com</a><br />
• Wall Street Journal — <a href="https://www.wsj.com" rel="nofollow">https://www.wsj.com</a><br />
• StoryBrand — <a href="https://storybrand.com" rel="nofollow">https://storybrand.com</a><br />
• Fizzle 80/20 Copywriting Guide — <a href="https://fizzle.co/sparkline/writing-copy-for-web" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/sparkline/writing-copy-for-web</a> <br />
• Ultimate Welcome Series — <a href="https://app.fizzle.co/library/ultimate-welcome-email" rel="nofollow">https://app.fizzle.co/library/ultimate-welcome-email</a><br />
• Shark Tank — <a href="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1442550/" rel="nofollow">https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1442550/</a><br />
• Dragon's Den — <a href="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443370/" rel="nofollow">https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443370/</a><br />
• Star Wars — <a href="https://www.starwars.com" rel="nofollow">https://www.starwars.com</a><br />
• Terence McKenna — <a href="https://medium.com/the-mission/unconventional-inspiration-the-best-of-terence-mckenna-5040385a69a2" rel="nofollow">https://medium.com/the-mission/unconventional-inspiration-the-best-of-terence-mckenna-5040385a69a2</a><br />
• Career Renegade — <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Career-Renegade-Great-Living-Doing/dp/0767927419" rel="nofollow">https://www.amazon.com/Career-Renegade-Great-Living-Doing/dp/0767927419</a><br />
• Copy Hackers — <a href="https://copyhackers.com" rel="nofollow">https://copyhackers.com</a><br />
• Justin Jackson — <a href="https://justinjackson.ca" rel="nofollow">https://justinjackson.ca</a><br />
• Pat Flynn — <a href="https://www.smartpassiveincome.com" rel="nofollow">https://www.smartpassiveincome.com</a><br />
• Kickstarter — <a href="https://www.kickstarter.com" rel="nofollow">https://www.kickstarter.com</a><br />
• Fizzle Roadmap — <a href="https://fizzle.co/sparkline/small-business-roadmap-1-clarity" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/sparkline/small-business-roadmap-1-clarity</a><br />
• Fizzle on Twitter — <a href="https://twitter.com/fizzle" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/fizzle</a><br />
• Fizzle Just Ship It Challenge — <a href="https://app.fizzle.co/just-ship-it-challenge" rel="nofollow">https://app.fizzle.co/just-ship-it-challenge</a><br />
• Fizzle Try 5 — <a href="http://fizzle.co/try5" rel="nofollow">http://fizzle.co/try5</a> <br />
• Courage and Clarity — <a href="https://www.courageandclarity.com/" rel="nofollow">https://www.courageandclarity.com/</a><br />
• Steph Crowder on Twitter — <a href="https://twitter.com/stephcrowder_?lang=en" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/stephcrowder_?lang=en</a><br />
• Corbett Barr on Twitter — <a href="https://twitter.com/CorbettBarr" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/CorbettBarr</a> <br />
• Chase Reeves on Twitter — <a href="https://twitter.com/chase_reeves" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/chase_reeves</a><br />
• Fizzle Sparkline — <a href="https://fizzle.co/sparkline" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/sparkline</a><br />
• Fizzle Goals Course — <a href="https://fizzle.co/courses/goals" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/courses/goals</a><br />
• Fizzle Journaling Course — <a href="https://fizzle.co/courses/journal" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/courses/journal</a><br />
• Fizzle Essentials of Web Design Course — <a href="https://fizzle.co/library/essentials-of-website-design-for-business-builders" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/library/essentials-of-website-design-for-business-builders</a><br />
• Fizzle Website Tune Up Curse — <a href="https://fizzle.co/courses/tuneup" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/courses/tuneup</a><br />
• Start A Blog That Matters Course — <a href="https://fizzle.co/start-a-blog-that-matters" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/start-a-blog-that-matters</a><br />
• Fizzle Toolkit — <a href="https://fizzle.co/toolkit" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/toolkit</a><br />
• Fizzle Craft + Commerce — <a href="https://fizzle.co/sparkline/craft-commerce" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/sparkline/craft-commerce</a><br />
• Fizzle Project Management for Entrepreneurs — <a href="https://fizzle.co/sparkline/project-management-for-entrepreneurs" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/sparkline/project-management-for-entrepreneurs</a><br />
• Fizzle Hosting — <a href="https://fizzle.co/hosting" rel="nofollow">https://fizzle.co/hosting</a></p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from fizzle.co, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The Fizzle Show
Episode: Episode 317: Email Hospitality: Copywriting A Personable Email Welcome Series (FS317)
Pub date: 2019-04-30

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/f7598253427341ea97966fcb710b6e5c/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from fizzle.co, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:04:39 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/f7598253427341ea97966fcb710b6e5c/</guid>
            
            <author>fizzle.co</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/f7598253427341ea97966fcb710b6e5c.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The Fizzle Show</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:59:39</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>fizzle.co</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-fizzle-show-fizzleco-geGRa2SZ1n5-SZUtwu9scGe.1400x1400.jpg" />
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        <item>
            <title>#231: “I’m Terrible At Writing My Own Copy” And Other Copywriting Lies That Are Killing Your Sales With Marie Forleo</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/54830523fb81498ab7f11a74372e3ca4</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-amy-porterfield-show-amy-porterfield-jXUyf4vBV20/">The Amy Porterfield Show</a> (LS 70 &middot; TOP 0.05% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/54830523fb81498ab7f11a74372e3ca4/">#231: “I’m Terrible At Writing My Own Copy” And Other Copywriting Lies That Are Killing Your Sales With Marie Forleo</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-10-04<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/54830523fb81498ab7f11a74372e3ca4/&notes=#231: “I’m Terrible At Writing My Own Copy” And Other Copywriting Lies That Are Killing Your Sales With Marie Forleo">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-amy-porterfield-show-amy-porterfield-n-bhsRiTr7C-jXUyf4vBV20.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>Let me ask you a question: Can you relate to any of these issues when it comes to writing your own copy?</p><ul>
<li> </li>
<li>It takes forever to write a headline, a blog post, or the script for your podcast or video show because you’re constantly second guessing yourself?</li>
<li> </li>
<li>You write something, put it out there and...CRICKETS? (The silence is devastating.)</li>
<li> </li>
<li>You’ve got a tight deadline and you sit down to write but you’re completely blocked? You can’t seem to eek out anything on that page and the clock is ticking?</li>
<li> </li>
</ul><p>If there’s one thing that most of us as online entrepreneurs have experienced it’s getting tripped up on writing copy.</p><p>Well, don’t worry, there’s hope for us yet...</p><p>Two things my guest, Marie Forleo (yes, the Marie from the award winning MarieTV!) shared on the podcast today that really resonated with me, and I think will with you too, are:</p><ol>
<li> </li>
<li>You CAN learn to be a stellar copywriter in your business. (No more telling yourself otherwise!)</li>
<li> </li>
<li>Writing effective copy has been the single most important skill that Marie has developed over the last 18 years in her business. (By the way, this one says A LOT, coming from a person that has achieved the monumental level of success that Marie has.)</li>
<li> </li>
</ol><p>Marie, who has been a student of copy since day one, joined me on the show today to share the top copywriting tips and strategies that she’s used along the way to connect and resonate with the millions of people her message has touched.</p><p>You know I love when you listen to my podcast and take action, so today I want you to listen in, take what Marie shares, and begin implementing it in your business immediately. You’ll see... you’ll get better and better with writing copy, and you’ll have tangible results to show for it: more conversions and a bigger impact.</p><p>If you haven’t jumped over and started listening already, let me give you one more reason why listening in today is going to be a game-changer in your business: You know how much competition is out there, right? Now, you know I’m all about running your own race, but competition is real, and when you can find an advantage over your competition, you’re smart to take it. Copy is an area that most people are not paying attention to, so this IS your competitive advantage. Writing better copy will be how you set yourself apart.</p><p>Are you ready? Press play and let’s dive in!</p><p> Subscribe &amp; Review in iTunes </p><p>Are you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. I’m adding a bunch of bonus episodes to the mix and if you’re not subscribed there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on those. <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/online-marketing-made-easy-with-amy-porterfield/id594703545?mt=2"> Click here to subscribe in iTunes</a>!</p><p>Now if you’re feeling extra loving, I would be really grateful if you left me a review over on <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/online-marketing-made-easy-with-amy-porterfield/id594703545?mt=2"> iTunes</a>, too. Those reviews help other people find my podcast and they’re also fun for me to go in an read. <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/online-marketing-made-easy-with-amy-porterfield/id594703545?mt=2"> Just click here to review</a>, select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” and let me know what your favorite part of the podcast is. Thank you!</p><p>Listener shout out of the week!</p><p> </p><p>Thank you </p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Amy Porterfield, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-amy-porterfield-show-amy-porterfield-jXUyf4vBV20/">The Amy Porterfield Show</a> (LS 70 &middot; TOP 0.05% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/54830523fb81498ab7f11a74372e3ca4/">#231: “I’m Terrible At Writing My Own Copy” And Other Copywriting Lies That Are Killing Your Sales With Marie Forleo</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2018-10-04<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/54830523fb81498ab7f11a74372e3ca4/&notes=#231: “I’m Terrible At Writing My Own Copy” And Other Copywriting Lies That Are Killing Your Sales With Marie Forleo">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-amy-porterfield-show-amy-porterfield-n-bhsRiTr7C-jXUyf4vBV20.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>Let me ask you a question: Can you relate to any of these issues when it comes to writing your own copy?</p><ul>
<li> </li>
<li>It takes forever to write a headline, a blog post, or the script for your podcast or video show because you’re constantly second guessing yourself?</li>
<li> </li>
<li>You write something, put it out there and...CRICKETS? (The silence is devastating.)</li>
<li> </li>
<li>You’ve got a tight deadline and you sit down to write but you’re completely blocked? You can’t seem to eek out anything on that page and the clock is ticking?</li>
<li> </li>
</ul><p>If there’s one thing that most of us as online entrepreneurs have experienced it’s getting tripped up on writing copy.</p><p>Well, don’t worry, there’s hope for us yet...</p><p>Two things my guest, Marie Forleo (yes, the Marie from the award winning MarieTV!) shared on the podcast today that really resonated with me, and I think will with you too, are:</p><ol>
<li> </li>
<li>You CAN learn to be a stellar copywriter in your business. (No more telling yourself otherwise!)</li>
<li> </li>
<li>Writing effective copy has been the single most important skill that Marie has developed over the last 18 years in her business. (By the way, this one says A LOT, coming from a person that has achieved the monumental level of success that Marie has.)</li>
<li> </li>
</ol><p>Marie, who has been a student of copy since day one, joined me on the show today to share the top copywriting tips and strategies that she’s used along the way to connect and resonate with the millions of people her message has touched.</p><p>You know I love when you listen to my podcast and take action, so today I want you to listen in, take what Marie shares, and begin implementing it in your business immediately. You’ll see... you’ll get better and better with writing copy, and you’ll have tangible results to show for it: more conversions and a bigger impact.</p><p>If you haven’t jumped over and started listening already, let me give you one more reason why listening in today is going to be a game-changer in your business: You know how much competition is out there, right? Now, you know I’m all about running your own race, but competition is real, and when you can find an advantage over your competition, you’re smart to take it. Copy is an area that most people are not paying attention to, so this IS your competitive advantage. Writing better copy will be how you set yourself apart.</p><p>Are you ready? Press play and let’s dive in!</p><p> Subscribe &amp; Review in iTunes </p><p>Are you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. I’m adding a bunch of bonus episodes to the mix and if you’re not subscribed there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on those. <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/online-marketing-made-easy-with-amy-porterfield/id594703545?mt=2"> Click here to subscribe in iTunes</a>!</p><p>Now if you’re feeling extra loving, I would be really grateful if you left me a review over on <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/online-marketing-made-easy-with-amy-porterfield/id594703545?mt=2"> iTunes</a>, too. Those reviews help other people find my podcast and they’re also fun for me to go in an read. <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/online-marketing-made-easy-with-amy-porterfield/id594703545?mt=2"> Just click here to review</a>, select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” and let me know what your favorite part of the podcast is. Thank you!</p><p>Listener shout out of the week!</p><p> </p><p>Thank you </p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Amy Porterfield, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The Amy Porterfield Show
Episode: #231: “I’m Terrible At Writing My Own Copy” And Other Copywriting Lies That Are Killing Your Sales With Marie Forleo
Pub date: 2018-10-04

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/54830523fb81498ab7f11a74372e3ca4/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Amy Porterfield, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:02:40 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/54830523fb81498ab7f11a74372e3ca4/</guid>
            
            <author>Amy Porterfield</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/54830523fb81498ab7f11a74372e3ca4.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>The Amy Porterfield Show</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:45:53</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Amy Porterfield</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-amy-porterfield-show-amy-porterfield-S3anFW4t_2C-jXUyf4vBV20.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>7 Copywriting Hacks that Will Double Your Conversions | Ep. #188</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/068ba5b47eb3460d983977f163716a76</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/marketing-school-digital-marketing-and-pHyiIJT4Lxl/">Marketing School - Digital Marketing and Online Marketing Tips</a> (LS 63 &middot; TOP 0.1% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/068ba5b47eb3460d983977f163716a76/">7 Copywriting Hacks that Will Double Your Conversions | Ep. #188</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2017-02-04<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/068ba5b47eb3460d983977f163716a76/&notes=7 Copywriting Hacks that Will Double Your Conversions | Ep. #188">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/marketing-school-digital-marketing-and-pvZHAW6wbNl-pHyiIJT4Lxl.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>In Episode #188, Eric and Neil discuss the 7 copywriting hacks that will double your conversions. What makes great copy? How do you fine tune your text to get people to convert? Tune in to learn some quick hacks that are tested and proven to boost your conversion rates this year.</p> Time Stamped Show Notes: <ul> <li>00:27 – Today’s topic: <em>7 Copywriting Hacks that Will Double Your Conversions</em>
</li> <li>00:35 – First, within your headlines, consider integrating the city <ul> <li>00:40 – Use <a href="https://www.maxmind.com/">MaxMind</a> which is an IP service that’ll integrate the person’s city</li> </ul> </li> <li>01:13 – Second, use specific statistics and numbers <ul> <li>01:07 – Check <a href="https://www.quicksprout.com/">Quick Sprout</a> or <a href="http://neilpatel.com/">Neil Patel</a> in <a href="http://buzzsumo.com/">BuzzSumo</a>
</li> </ul> </li> <li>02:08 – Third, copywriting is about answering objections <ul> <li>02:29 – Find out people’s objections by asking pointed questions and answer their objections in your copy</li> </ul> </li> <li>02:50 – Fourth, include the person’s name inside the copy when it’s relevant</li> <li>03:14 – Fifth is to show vulnerability <ul> <li>03:20 – Neil showed how he made mistakes and how he fixed them</li> </ul> </li> <li>04:20 – Include all examples and calls-to-action</li> <li>04:50 – Seventh is storytelling <ul> <li>04:59 – Don’t forget to innovate stories in your copy</li> </ul> </li> <li>05:13 – That’s it for today’s episode!</li> </ul> 3 Key Points: <ol> <li>Use a person’s name and city in the title and in the copy to personalize their experience.</li> <li>Vulnerability helps people to relate to you and this can develop trust with your customers.</li> <li>Storytelling is a great way to hook people and draw them in.</li> </ol> <p>Leave some feedback:</p> <ul> <li>What should we talk about next? Please let us know in the comments below.</li> <li>Did you enjoy this episode? If so, please leave a short review.</li> </ul> <p>Connect with us:</p> <ul> <li><a href="http://neilpatel.com/">NeilPatel.com</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.quicksprout.com/">Quick Sprout</a></li> <li><a href="http://growtheverywhere.com/">Growth Everywhere</a></li> <li><a href="http://www.singlegrain.com/">Single Grain</a></li> <li><a href="https://twitter.com/neilpatel">Twitter @neilpatel</a></li> <li><a href="https://twitter.com/ericosiu">Twitter @ericosiu</a></li> </ul><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p><p>See <a href="https://omnystudio.com/listener">omnystudio.com/listener</a> for privacy information.</p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Eric Siu and Neil Patel, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/marketing-school-digital-marketing-and-pHyiIJT4Lxl/">Marketing School - Digital Marketing and Online Marketing Tips</a> (LS 63 &middot; TOP 0.1% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/068ba5b47eb3460d983977f163716a76/">7 Copywriting Hacks that Will Double Your Conversions | Ep. #188</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2017-02-04<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/068ba5b47eb3460d983977f163716a76/&notes=7 Copywriting Hacks that Will Double Your Conversions | Ep. #188">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/marketing-school-digital-marketing-and-pvZHAW6wbNl-pHyiIJT4Lxl.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>In Episode #188, Eric and Neil discuss the 7 copywriting hacks that will double your conversions. What makes great copy? How do you fine tune your text to get people to convert? Tune in to learn some quick hacks that are tested and proven to boost your conversion rates this year.</p> Time Stamped Show Notes: <ul> <li>00:27 – Today’s topic: <em>7 Copywriting Hacks that Will Double Your Conversions</em>
</li> <li>00:35 – First, within your headlines, consider integrating the city <ul> <li>00:40 – Use <a href="https://www.maxmind.com/">MaxMind</a> which is an IP service that’ll integrate the person’s city</li> </ul> </li> <li>01:13 – Second, use specific statistics and numbers <ul> <li>01:07 – Check <a href="https://www.quicksprout.com/">Quick Sprout</a> or <a href="http://neilpatel.com/">Neil Patel</a> in <a href="http://buzzsumo.com/">BuzzSumo</a>
</li> </ul> </li> <li>02:08 – Third, copywriting is about answering objections <ul> <li>02:29 – Find out people’s objections by asking pointed questions and answer their objections in your copy</li> </ul> </li> <li>02:50 – Fourth, include the person’s name inside the copy when it’s relevant</li> <li>03:14 – Fifth is to show vulnerability <ul> <li>03:20 – Neil showed how he made mistakes and how he fixed them</li> </ul> </li> <li>04:20 – Include all examples and calls-to-action</li> <li>04:50 – Seventh is storytelling <ul> <li>04:59 – Don’t forget to innovate stories in your copy</li> </ul> </li> <li>05:13 – That’s it for today’s episode!</li> </ul> 3 Key Points: <ol> <li>Use a person’s name and city in the title and in the copy to personalize their experience.</li> <li>Vulnerability helps people to relate to you and this can develop trust with your customers.</li> <li>Storytelling is a great way to hook people and draw them in.</li> </ol> <p>Leave some feedback:</p> <ul> <li>What should we talk about next? Please let us know in the comments below.</li> <li>Did you enjoy this episode? If so, please leave a short review.</li> </ul> <p>Connect with us:</p> <ul> <li><a href="http://neilpatel.com/">NeilPatel.com</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.quicksprout.com/">Quick Sprout</a></li> <li><a href="http://growtheverywhere.com/">Growth Everywhere</a></li> <li><a href="http://www.singlegrain.com/">Single Grain</a></li> <li><a href="https://twitter.com/neilpatel">Twitter @neilpatel</a></li> <li><a href="https://twitter.com/ericosiu">Twitter @ericosiu</a></li> </ul><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p><p>See <a href="https://omnystudio.com/listener">omnystudio.com/listener</a> for privacy information.</p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Eric Siu and Neil Patel, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: Marketing School - Digital Marketing and Online Marketing Tips
Episode: 7 Copywriting Hacks that Will Double Your Conversions | Ep. #188
Pub date: 2017-02-04

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/068ba5b47eb3460d983977f163716a76/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Eric Siu and Neil Patel, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:02:31 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/068ba5b47eb3460d983977f163716a76/</guid>
            
            <author>Eric Siu and Neil Patel</author>



            
            <enclosure url='https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/068ba5b47eb3460d983977f163716a76.mp3' type='audio/mpeg' />
            

            <itunes:subtitle>Marketing School - Digital Marketing and Online Marketing Tips</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:08:42</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Eric Siu and Neil Patel</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/marketing-school-digital-marketing-and-h8DSxC-ZKid-pHyiIJT4Lxl.1400x1400.jpg" />
        </item>
            
        
            
        <item>
            <title>How to Learn Copywriting When You Suck at Writing | Ep. #487</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/741498bdc25e4b0bb82ef274be0434e8</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/marketing-school-digital-marketing-and-pHyiIJT4Lxl/">Marketing School - Digital Marketing and Online Marketing Tips</a> (LS 63 &middot; TOP 0.1% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/741498bdc25e4b0bb82ef274be0434e8/">How to Learn Copywriting When You Suck at Writing | Ep. #487</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2017-11-30<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/741498bdc25e4b0bb82ef274be0434e8/&notes=How to Learn Copywriting When You Suck at Writing | Ep. #487">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/marketing-school-digital-marketing-and-pvZHAW6wbNl-pHyiIJT4Lxl.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>In Episode #487, Eric and Neil discuss how to learn copywriting when you suck at writing. Tune in to learn that you don’t have to be an expert writer to be a copywriter. Focus on overcoming objections and solving problems. They also shares books, tools, and helpful resources.</p> <p>Time-stamped show notes:</p> <ul> <li>[00:28] - Today's topic: <em>How to Learn Copywriting When You Suck at Writing</em>
</li> <li>[00:43] - If you suck at writing, it doesn't mean you can't do copywriting to compel people to take action.</li> <li>[01:00] - Read <a href="https://www.influenceatwork.com/principles-of-persuasion/">Persuasion by Robert Cialdini</a> and <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Boron-Letters-Gary-C-Halbert/dp/1484825985"> The Boron Letters by Gary Halbert</a>.</li> <li>[01:53] - Neil is great at copywriting, but not writing. He learned he doesn't have to be the best writer from <a href="https://frankkern.com/">Frank Kern</a>.</li> <li>[02:26] - You just need to be able to answer the customer's objection.</li> <li>[02:43] - Survey your visitors and find their objections. Use <a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/">SurveyMonkey</a> or any survey tool.</li> <li>[02:49] - Find out why people aren't converting and answer those objections in your copy.</li> <li>[03:08] - Solving people's problems will make them much more likely to convert.</li> <li>[03:27] - <a href="https://appsumo.com/">AppSumo</a> is based on sending emails. <a href="http://www.nevblog.com/">Neville Medhora</a> from <a href="https://kopywritingkourse.com/">Kopywriting Kourse</a> helped <a href="https://okdork.com/">Noah Kagan</a> build AppSumo.</li> <li>[03:37] - You have to have good copy when sending emails.</li> <li>[03:58] - Also check out <a href="https://www.copyblogger.com/">CopyBlogger</a> and the <a href="https://www.themcmethod.com/email-marketing-podcast/">podcast from John McIntyre</a> and <a href="http://bensettle.com/">Ben Settle’s emails</a>.</li> <li>[04:15] - When looking at copywriting think of the concept of Seinfeld emails: talking about nothing or the story of your day and weaving in your offer.</li> <li>[05:14] - Conversion rates are 1 to 3 percent. To get people to convert, you have to create multiple ways to help your customers convert into buyers.</li> <li>[06:29] - Talking to people and presenting information in the right scenario can also help with conversion.</li> <li>[06:41] - That's it for today!</li> <li>[06:45] - <a href="http://marketingschool.io/">Marketing School</a> is giving away a 90-day FREE trial to <a href="https://www.crazyegg.com/">Crazy Egg</a> which is a visual analytics tool. Go to <a href="http://singlegrain.com/giveaway">SingleGrain.com/giveaway</a> to get your FREE copy.</li> <li>[06:53] - You can also learn how to win a one-year subscription to <a href="https://www.crazyegg.com/">Crazy Egg</a>. </li> </ul> <p>Leave some feedback:</p> <ul> <li>What should we talk about next? Please let us know in the comments below.</li> <li>Did you enjoy this episode? If so, please leave a short review.</li> </ul> <p>Connect with us:</p> <ul> <li><a href="http://neilpatel.com/">NeilPatel.com</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.quicksprout.com/">Quick Sprout</a></li> <li><a href="http://growtheverywhere.com/">Growth Everywhere</a></li> <li><a href="http://www.singlegrain.com/">Single Grain</a></li> <li><a href="https://twitter.com/neilpatel">Twitter @neilpatel</a></li> <li><a href="https://twitter.com/ericosiu">Twitter @ericosiu</a></li> </ul><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p><p>See <a href="https://omnystudio.com/listener">omnystudio.com/listener</a> for privacy information.</p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Eric Siu and Neil Patel, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/marketing-school-digital-marketing-and-pHyiIJT4Lxl/">Marketing School - Digital Marketing and Online Marketing Tips</a> (LS 63 &middot; TOP 0.1% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/741498bdc25e4b0bb82ef274be0434e8/">How to Learn Copywriting When You Suck at Writing | Ep. #487</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2017-11-30<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/741498bdc25e4b0bb82ef274be0434e8/&notes=How to Learn Copywriting When You Suck at Writing | Ep. #487">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/marketing-school-digital-marketing-and-pvZHAW6wbNl-pHyiIJT4Lxl.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>In Episode #487, Eric and Neil discuss how to learn copywriting when you suck at writing. Tune in to learn that you don’t have to be an expert writer to be a copywriter. Focus on overcoming objections and solving problems. They also shares books, tools, and helpful resources.</p> <p>Time-stamped show notes:</p> <ul> <li>[00:28] - Today's topic: <em>How to Learn Copywriting When You Suck at Writing</em>
</li> <li>[00:43] - If you suck at writing, it doesn't mean you can't do copywriting to compel people to take action.</li> <li>[01:00] - Read <a href="https://www.influenceatwork.com/principles-of-persuasion/">Persuasion by Robert Cialdini</a> and <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Boron-Letters-Gary-C-Halbert/dp/1484825985"> The Boron Letters by Gary Halbert</a>.</li> <li>[01:53] - Neil is great at copywriting, but not writing. He learned he doesn't have to be the best writer from <a href="https://frankkern.com/">Frank Kern</a>.</li> <li>[02:26] - You just need to be able to answer the customer's objection.</li> <li>[02:43] - Survey your visitors and find their objections. Use <a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/">SurveyMonkey</a> or any survey tool.</li> <li>[02:49] - Find out why people aren't converting and answer those objections in your copy.</li> <li>[03:08] - Solving people's problems will make them much more likely to convert.</li> <li>[03:27] - <a href="https://appsumo.com/">AppSumo</a> is based on sending emails. <a href="http://www.nevblog.com/">Neville Medhora</a> from <a href="https://kopywritingkourse.com/">Kopywriting Kourse</a> helped <a href="https://okdork.com/">Noah Kagan</a> build AppSumo.</li> <li>[03:37] - You have to have good copy when sending emails.</li> <li>[03:58] - Also check out <a href="https://www.copyblogger.com/">CopyBlogger</a> and the <a href="https://www.themcmethod.com/email-marketing-podcast/">podcast from John McIntyre</a> and <a href="http://bensettle.com/">Ben Settle’s emails</a>.</li> <li>[04:15] - When looking at copywriting think of the concept of Seinfeld emails: talking about nothing or the story of your day and weaving in your offer.</li> <li>[05:14] - Conversion rates are 1 to 3 percent. To get people to convert, you have to create multiple ways to help your customers convert into buyers.</li> <li>[06:29] - Talking to people and presenting information in the right scenario can also help with conversion.</li> <li>[06:41] - That's it for today!</li> <li>[06:45] - <a href="http://marketingschool.io/">Marketing School</a> is giving away a 90-day FREE trial to <a href="https://www.crazyegg.com/">Crazy Egg</a> which is a visual analytics tool. Go to <a href="http://singlegrain.com/giveaway">SingleGrain.com/giveaway</a> to get your FREE copy.</li> <li>[06:53] - You can also learn how to win a one-year subscription to <a href="https://www.crazyegg.com/">Crazy Egg</a>. </li> </ul> <p>Leave some feedback:</p> <ul> <li>What should we talk about next? Please let us know in the comments below.</li> <li>Did you enjoy this episode? If so, please leave a short review.</li> </ul> <p>Connect with us:</p> <ul> <li><a href="http://neilpatel.com/">NeilPatel.com</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.quicksprout.com/">Quick Sprout</a></li> <li><a href="http://growtheverywhere.com/">Growth Everywhere</a></li> <li><a href="http://www.singlegrain.com/">Single Grain</a></li> <li><a href="https://twitter.com/neilpatel">Twitter @neilpatel</a></li> <li><a href="https://twitter.com/ericosiu">Twitter @ericosiu</a></li> </ul><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a></p><p>See <a href="https://omnystudio.com/listener">omnystudio.com/listener</a> for privacy information.</p><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Eric Siu and Neil Patel, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: Marketing School - Digital Marketing and Online Marketing Tips
Episode: How to Learn Copywriting When You Suck at Writing | Ep. #487
Pub date: 2017-11-30

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/741498bdc25e4b0bb82ef274be0434e8/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Eric Siu and Neil Patel, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:02:16 -0700</pubDate>
            
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            <author>Eric Siu and Neil Patel</author>



            
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            <itunes:subtitle>Marketing School - Digital Marketing and Online Marketing Tips</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:10:25</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Eric Siu and Neil Patel</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
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            <title>#266: The Little Known (Easier Than You Think) Copywriting Method That Boosts Conversions</title>
            
            <link>https://www.listennotes.com/e/8416d79eb4da43bc8380f99aea128e9f</link>
            
            <description><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-amy-porterfield-show-amy-porterfield-jXUyf4vBV20/">The Amy Porterfield Show</a> (LS 70 &middot; TOP 0.05% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/8416d79eb4da43bc8380f99aea128e9f/">#266: The Little Known (Easier Than You Think) Copywriting Method That Boosts Conversions</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-06-06<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/8416d79eb4da43bc8380f99aea128e9f/&notes=#266: The Little Known (Easier Than You Think) Copywriting Method That Boosts Conversions">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-amy-porterfield-show-amy-porterfield-n-bhsRiTr7C-jXUyf4vBV20.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>Let’s be honest here. Writing copy can be hard, but it’s an important almost mandatory skill for new business people just starting out. In fact, I wrote all of my own copy my first few years of business, and I suggest that you do the same. Become a student of copywriting. The more you do it, the easier it will become. Today, I’m talking about a technique that will help you build up that oh-so-important relationship with your ideal avatar.</p><p>This technique is by Ry Schwartz an expert copywriter who writes a lot of my copy. He also teaches copywriting and my audience loves him. This method is called Coaching the Conversion. It's all about writing copy in a way that will resonate with your ideal customer avatar at a really high level and will meet them right where they're at. It will help them feel as though they know that you see them and you hear them.</p><p>I actually think it's important that you write your own copy for the first two years of your business. You need to truly understand your ideal customer. Writing copy for your ideal customer is an intimate experience. It really should begin with you. It will make you a better entrepreneur and a better communicator overall if you take the time to perfect your expertise.</p><p>After this episode, you will walk away with golden nuggets that will help you transform your next promotion. I even share one of my best converting ads and break it all down for you step-by-step.</p><p>Coaching the Conversion Method in 4 Steps</p><ol>
<li> </li>
<li>[10:34] Shift your mindset about how you feel about being a copywriter. Look at copywriting as a means to coach your ideal customer through a transformation by using words that make them feel seen and heard.</li>
<li> </li>
<li>[13:47] Know your ideal customer avatar like you know your best friend. Sometimes you have to read between the lines and know-your-customer intimately. Clearly understand their pain points, desires, and what makes them tick.</li>
<li> </li>
<li>[17:42] Use their words. It's important that you reflect back to them what they are feeling and what they are saying. Keep a running list of words and phrases that they use. These are pure gold for copywriters.</li>
<li> </li>
<li>[19:24] Remember that coaching the conversion walks your potential customer along the path from where they are now to where they could be or where they want to be. The first part of the path is your weekly content then you move on to coaching opportunities inside a webinar. Then send post follow-up emails.</li>
<li> </li>
</ol><p>A Concrete Example from One of My Highest Converting Facebook Ads:</p><p><em>How long have you been waiting to finally have the confidence to go all in on building and selling your digital course? Six months a year more. It took me a while to get started to.</em></p><p><em>I was scared I'd fail, and guess what? I pretty much did. My first course only made me $267, but I stuck with it and 7 courses, 42,000 students, and 8.7 million dollars in revenue later. I've learned a thing or two, and I want to share all that with you. Register for free here (and then I give the link).</em></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Subscribe &amp; Review in iTunes</p><p>Are you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. I’m adding a bunch of bonus episodes to the mix and if you’re not subscribed there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on those. <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/255-whats-keeping-you-safe-is-whats-keeping-you-stuck/id594703545?i=1000432649261&amp;mt=2"> Click here to subscribe in iTunes</a>!</p><p>Now if you’re feeling extra loving, I’d be really grateful if you left me a review over on <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/255-whats-keeping-you-safe-is-whats-keeping-you-stuck/id594703545?i=1000432649261&amp;mt=2"> iTunes</a>, too. Those reviews help other people find my podcast and they’re also fun for me to go in an read. <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/255-whats-keeping-you-safe-is-whats-keeping-you-stuck/id594703545?i=1000432649261&amp;mt=2"> Just click here to review</a>, select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” and let me know what your favorite part of the podcast is. Thank you!</p><p>Links mentioned in this episode:</p><ul>
<li> </li>
<li><a href="https://www.amyporterfield.com/listbuilding">Free List Building Masterclass</a></li>
<li> </li>
<li><a href="https://copyhackers.com/author/schwartz-ry/">Ry Schwartz</a></li>
<li> </li>
<li><a href="https://www.amyporterfield.com/2018/11/235/">Episode #235: How To Identify Your Ideal Customer Avatar</a></li>
<li> </li>
</ul><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Amy Porterfield, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></description>
            <content:encoded><![CDATA[ <strong>Podcast</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-amy-porterfield-show-amy-porterfield-jXUyf4vBV20/">The Amy Porterfield Show</a> (LS 70 &middot; TOP 0.05% <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/listen-score/"><small>what is this?</small></a>)<br><strong>Episode</strong>: <a href="https://www.listennotes.com/e/8416d79eb4da43bc8380f99aea128e9f/">#266: The Little Known (Easier Than You Think) Copywriting Method That Boosts Conversions</a><br><strong>Pub date</strong>: 2019-06-06<br><br><a href="https://www.listen411.com/?audio_url=https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/8416d79eb4da43bc8380f99aea128e9f/&notes=#266: The Little Known (Easier Than You Think) Copywriting Method That Boosts Conversions">Get Podcast Transcript &#8594;</a><br><em>powered by <a href="https://www.listen411.com/">Listen411</a> - fast audio-to-text and summarization</em><br><br><img src="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-amy-porterfield-show-amy-porterfield-n-bhsRiTr7C-jXUyf4vBV20.300x300.jpg" width="150" height="150"></img><br><br><p>Let’s be honest here. Writing copy can be hard, but it’s an important almost mandatory skill for new business people just starting out. In fact, I wrote all of my own copy my first few years of business, and I suggest that you do the same. Become a student of copywriting. The more you do it, the easier it will become. Today, I’m talking about a technique that will help you build up that oh-so-important relationship with your ideal avatar.</p><p>This technique is by Ry Schwartz an expert copywriter who writes a lot of my copy. He also teaches copywriting and my audience loves him. This method is called Coaching the Conversion. It's all about writing copy in a way that will resonate with your ideal customer avatar at a really high level and will meet them right where they're at. It will help them feel as though they know that you see them and you hear them.</p><p>I actually think it's important that you write your own copy for the first two years of your business. You need to truly understand your ideal customer. Writing copy for your ideal customer is an intimate experience. It really should begin with you. It will make you a better entrepreneur and a better communicator overall if you take the time to perfect your expertise.</p><p>After this episode, you will walk away with golden nuggets that will help you transform your next promotion. I even share one of my best converting ads and break it all down for you step-by-step.</p><p>Coaching the Conversion Method in 4 Steps</p><ol>
<li> </li>
<li>[10:34] Shift your mindset about how you feel about being a copywriter. Look at copywriting as a means to coach your ideal customer through a transformation by using words that make them feel seen and heard.</li>
<li> </li>
<li>[13:47] Know your ideal customer avatar like you know your best friend. Sometimes you have to read between the lines and know-your-customer intimately. Clearly understand their pain points, desires, and what makes them tick.</li>
<li> </li>
<li>[17:42] Use their words. It's important that you reflect back to them what they are feeling and what they are saying. Keep a running list of words and phrases that they use. These are pure gold for copywriters.</li>
<li> </li>
<li>[19:24] Remember that coaching the conversion walks your potential customer along the path from where they are now to where they could be or where they want to be. The first part of the path is your weekly content then you move on to coaching opportunities inside a webinar. Then send post follow-up emails.</li>
<li> </li>
</ol><p>A Concrete Example from One of My Highest Converting Facebook Ads:</p><p><em>How long have you been waiting to finally have the confidence to go all in on building and selling your digital course? Six months a year more. It took me a while to get started to.</em></p><p><em>I was scared I'd fail, and guess what? I pretty much did. My first course only made me $267, but I stuck with it and 7 courses, 42,000 students, and 8.7 million dollars in revenue later. I've learned a thing or two, and I want to share all that with you. Register for free here (and then I give the link).</em></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Subscribe &amp; Review in iTunes</p><p>Are you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. I’m adding a bunch of bonus episodes to the mix and if you’re not subscribed there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on those. <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/255-whats-keeping-you-safe-is-whats-keeping-you-stuck/id594703545?i=1000432649261&amp;mt=2"> Click here to subscribe in iTunes</a>!</p><p>Now if you’re feeling extra loving, I’d be really grateful if you left me a review over on <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/255-whats-keeping-you-safe-is-whats-keeping-you-stuck/id594703545?i=1000432649261&amp;mt=2"> iTunes</a>, too. Those reviews help other people find my podcast and they’re also fun for me to go in an read. <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/255-whats-keeping-you-safe-is-whats-keeping-you-stuck/id594703545?i=1000432649261&amp;mt=2"> Just click here to review</a>, select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” and let me know what your favorite part of the podcast is. Thank you!</p><p>Links mentioned in this episode:</p><ul>
<li> </li>
<li><a href="https://www.amyporterfield.com/listbuilding">Free List Building Masterclass</a></li>
<li> </li>
<li><a href="https://copyhackers.com/author/schwartz-ry/">Ry Schwartz</a></li>
<li> </li>
<li><a href="https://www.amyporterfield.com/2018/11/235/">Episode #235: How To Identify Your Ideal Customer Avatar</a></li>
<li> </li>
</ul><br><br><small>The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Amy Porterfield, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.</small><br> ]]></content:encoded>
            <itunes:summary>
                <![CDATA[
Podcast: The Amy Porterfield Show
Episode: #266: The Little Known (Easier Than You Think) Copywriting Method That Boosts Conversions
Pub date: 2019-06-06

Details: https://www.listennotes.com/e/8416d79eb4da43bc8380f99aea128e9f/

The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Amy Porterfield, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.

                ]]>
            </itunes:summary>
            <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:02:09 -0700</pubDate>
            
            <guid>https://audio.listennotes.com/e/p/8416d79eb4da43bc8380f99aea128e9f/</guid>
            
            <author>Amy Porterfield</author>



            
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            <itunes:subtitle>The Amy Porterfield Show</itunes:subtitle>
            <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
            <itunes:duration>00:32:45</itunes:duration>
            <itunes:author>Amy Porterfield</itunes:author>
            <itunes:episodeType>Full</itunes:episodeType>
            <itunes:image href="https://cdn-images-3.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-amy-porterfield-show-amy-porterfield-S3anFW4t_2C-jXUyf4vBV20.1400x1400.jpg" />
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